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if you are going to stay with it, I would spend now. for finish reasons and machine service. and its always nice to tell customer you will be making there part on a haas not yaksukie or something.
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Hello to all. So folks what do you think, is it better to start with a Haas or goto a cheaper/import mill for a start up cnc shop. Hate to go with the direct approach but I have to hear from the "Pros" out there. That is you all. When I say mom and pop shop I mean a home shop doing some molds here and there maybe 6 to 12 a year from the back yard. No offense to the bigger shops out there, I am just getting started so in todays economy its a little hard to go into a industrial area zonning for the mentioned work above. Have to keep the overhead down. I probally aint worth but about $10.00 a hour right now LOL as far as skill is concern so there is plenty of room for the learning curve. I still work another full time job so I will have weekends and afternoons to cover the work load. So to summarize the question, is it best to keep it at a hobby cnc mill price with the imports or pay 1/3 to 1/2 more and go ahead and get the pro machine. I am a little intimadated to run that question upon you guys but I have a opportunity to create somework for the American manufacturing industry and I am a firm beliver in keeping it in America, Any help with this decision will be appreciated.
mom and pop if you are going to stay with it, I would spend now. for finish reasons and machine service. and its always nice to tell customer you will be making there part on a haas not yaksukie or something.
Get the Haas, you'll be much happier than some hobby mill that probably won't be able to cut your materials accurately and not to mention problems with posting.
Thanks guys for the your advice about the mills. I have a sit down appointment with a Haas rep tomorrow.
I agree. Go with the Haas. I don't think you can beat their bang-for-the-buck. We love our Mini Mill. That was our first CNC. We are primarily a Brown & Sharpe screw machine shop and the Mini was bought to help the second ops dept. Now, 2 years later, it seems that 2/3 to 3/4 of the work going through our shop has to go through that mill. Not to mention that we have some small mill-only parts now.
Probably the best recommendation I could give you is if at all possible, get a 4th axis. we got the HA5CB on a what if. It has more than paid for itself many times over in the last 2 years. We can't live without it. A little bigger indexer would have been nice now that we are making larger parts with our SL-10, but it still holds it's own quite well.
Good luck in your search!
Gizmo
I think you've already answered your own question. Though it doesn't hurt to look around and see what else is available. There are also some other US manufactured machines beside Haas. Anyway, I too am slowly climbing the learning curve and I've fell off a few times already.Originally Posted by rossrods
I would buy a Haas over a hobby machine any day of the week. I'd buy one over any knee mill retro. My mini just keeps on running. My SL10 is a piece of junk. I think you guys are right. Haas IS a good bang for the buck. Is it the BEST bang for the buck? Depends on your parts. You want to do steel or stainless all day, that little mini might not be the best choice out there. They claim it's a 7 1/2hp machine. That just ain't so. This machine will bog down with a 2.5 inch face mill .03 in aluminum. It's about a 2 hp machine in reality.
But, that said...there are machining stratagies that you can use to remove the same ammount of material by taking more, lighter cuts, faster.
I've made a lot of money with mine na dit's been pretty reliable. they DO hold their value.
Bottom line though, If you grow....you'll outgrow a Haas.
Yeah, I agree with you all. Starting out with a Haas I think is the best way to go. That's how Haas does their business, hoping you'll buy another one. However, the next step might be a Makino, Mori, Okuma, etc in my opinion. I have the 100th machine they made, which is a VF-1 "bubble" machine. Monday they are going to install a new gearbox in it, got it on the floor right now. The machine is very old, but worth the new spindle since it does so well. The machine still runs, but there is a nasty sound coming out of it. I'd rather not have a break down. A drawback though is that they are no longer going to support that machine because of it's age. That is something to consider when thinking about an older Haas.
[QUOTE=PBMW;440868] This machine will bog down with a 2.5 inch face mill .03 in aluminum.QUOTE]
You must have something wrong with your machine .. parameters or something.
We do a cut with a 3" Valenite shell mill MSN45-230-5R3 125F
.180 doc @ 1850rpm Feedrate of 40. on aluminum across a 6" x 4" piece .. it puts a load on it .. but gets it done.
Well, Now you've got my attention...
What parameter could possibly cause the motor to not pull?
I machine aluminum on a regular basis on my Sharp at close to 4000sfm with a face mill. 6000 rpm and .125 deep. 100 ipm. All the time. Works great.
If I turn on the spindle to 6k rpm with the same cutter on the Haas, Couldn't tell you whose cutter it is but it uses 6 APKT1604 inserts.
.03 deep in 6061 and hand jog, I'm guessing about 40ipm, is over 150%
I've just accepted it as the way the machine is. I knew from the start it didn't have a lot of power. I've always used lighter faster cuts to get the job done. It's made me a lot of money and been quite reliable. But it's got no power.
What parameter could possibly have anything to do with this?
I guess I am confused. If I am going to be doing parts big enough that I need to have a 3" face mill doing a 0.180" DOC, I am not going to buy a Mini Mill. "Mini Mill"...In other words, "Light duty, small part, drilling/tapping machine". Yes, we use ours all the time for milling stainless, carbon and alloy steel, brass, and aluminum. But 90% of the time, the largest EM I need is 3/8" dia. I do have a 1" 4 tooth that I use as a face mill. and I do have a 3/4" High Feed mill from Mitsubishi that I use on occasion. Never the less, rarely do I see the load meter move over the 50% mark. Usually it is around 30-35% or less. But, here is the kicker: WE MAKE SMALLER PARTS. If you plan on making big parts, buy a BIG machine with BIG 50 taper and BIG horsepower.
Just my opinion.
Gizmo
Hey Guys met with the haas rep and he is directing me towards a Tm-1 because of the cost crunch. I do understand the drawbacks in regards to the 4000rpm speed but how costly is it in terms of inches per minute or sfpm compared to 6000rpm mini mill, is it really that big of a difference. There is no way right now to get into a VM-2 with the potential of 12,000rpm. Yep, this is a start up mom and pop shop with no 3 phase power and I probally will keep the tool changer off right now until I can see how things are going to go just to keep the price down.
Also lets compare it to one of the more popular import mills on this site. Is the TM-1 the best option here. With my work thats comming available the 30" x travel will be very beneficial. Also in 6061 how limited will I be in time, as far as finishing quickly since I cant spin out at 12,000.RPM or even 6000 RPM. I am willing to spend the night with the tool path running, LOL, "got to start some where, Almost like having a baby".Thanks for the help so far guys.
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