New Mini Mill 2

[HAILINHAAS]

Check it out

[PBMW]

I like a lot of the things about this machine. SMTC, no chips in the pockets. More Z room...
I would really like Haas to build one with a real casting. More rigidity and real HP numbers, not marketing junk.
I also think Haas has a problem with machine overlap. For just a bit more, you get a VF2.
There are a lot of start up companies that are in the garage. Haas loyalty is pretty strong. Make a machine like this that is a step up from the mini, but still marketed to the garage shops and their budget.

[JohnJW]

Sometimes I wonder how much R&D budget Haas allocate vs NASCAR/Marketing. Is Haas more of a system integrator with clever marketing or machine tool innovator? Walking through Westec toward the end of the last day I walked by Makino's booth and the sales person was nice enough to explain his machine to me though I'm obviously not a potential customer. If I understood correctly, they also use linear guide way, beefier ball screw, heavier casting, and build their own spindles. Hence a machine that's more accurate at 2X the price but fundamentally similar to a haas. All the new machines I see at Haas are great, but they seem to be different rehash using similar components with perhaps the same limitations. I see horizontal expansion of product lines but I don't see technological expansion in the vertical direction. MiniMill2 is great but that's just a SuperMini with SMTC from the VF series. If they come out with something with beefier casting, ball screw that gives an 100% improvement in accuracy and repeatability at a fractional increase in price I would say WOW. To be fair, given my own lack of progress in the last two years with my SS who am I to judge. . . . Overall, Haas is still a great American company, but I sometimes wish they would start competing on some thing other than market share because other builders are catching up in providing value to the customer.

[slatern44]

I agree 100% with both of you. When I walk in to the Haas booth I really want to see what's new and cool for this year. I got a 100% let down. The Haas sales guy that walked around with me and showed me this new mini mill 2 did not understand much. He was telling me about how small of a footprint it took up and all the options that it had. But then I took out my free enco tape measure and we started to measure the actual size and compare it to a VF-2 that was 2 machines down and his eyes started to open up. He had never actually measured it himself he had just heard about it in meetings and what the flyer said. After a couple of minutes of talking he agreed that a VF-1 or 2 is a much better machine and value. And what up with so many SS machines at the show? I think and so do allot of other shops around here think that this is the worst machine they have made and its the reason they are not going to by another Haas again, but at the show they had a bunch of them. Too many in inventory or what?

[JohnJW]

Originally Posted by slatern44 And what up with so many SS machines at the show? I think and so do allot of other shops around here think that this is the worst machine they have made and its the reason they are not going to by another Haas again, but at the show they had a bunch of them. Too many in inventory or what?

I also noticed two SS at greenleaf's booth cutting away at P20 with their ceramtic inserts. When asked, the greenleaf person said the SS works well with their cutting tools. The machine is not free but they have some sort of a deal with Haas. The reason I noticed is because a couple year ago they were using Hurco. Anyway, I forgot to see if the RPM they were running was higher than the 7500 limit for the regualr VF. I don't think the SS are that bad, 30hp at 12000rpm is pretty good. Using smaller cutters I find myself at the 10k mark all the time.

[PBMW]

John....
It's not a 30 hp machine.
It's a 15 hp machine.
Haas rates their motors at 200% spindle load for 30 seconds. That would be just aout three seconds before it goes up in flames.

[axis]

are you ready to get sick its not a 30 or a 15 it a 10hp motor here is the one out of my ss. left me with more quetions than answers but i havnt run out of power yet but this is the second motor in my machine if that tells you anything

[PBMW]

They're calling it a 30 hp machine and it's got a 10hp motor?
I'd be talking to my lawyer about that.

[Donkey Hotey]

Ya' know guys, I've been reading these threads about spindle HP but that plate tells a lot.

Yes, it says that it's rated at 10HP but that is at 1750 RPM. We'd have to see the torque curves but the pulleys are 1:1 ratio, right? So a 7500 RPM machine isn't making 10 HP from only 1750 RPM.

• 10 HP at 1750 RPM is 30 ft/lb
• 30 HP at 7500 RPM is 21 ft/lb

That means that the motor's torque curve has dropped off 1/3 at the elevated RPM (which makes perfect sense). Haas has on-the-fly Wye-Delta switching to minimize that effect at higher RPM.

It sure seems to me like 30 HP is perfectly realistic--unless I'm missing something here.

[JohnJW]

Originally Posted by PBMW John.... It's not a 30 hp machine. It's a 15 hp machine. Haas rates their motors at 200% spindle load for 30 seconds. That would be just aout three seconds before it goes up in flames.

Ouch. . .

Originally Posted by axis are you ready to get sick its not a 30 or a 15 it a 10hp motor here is the one out of my ss. left me with more quetions than answers but i havnt run out of power yet but this is the second motor in my machine if that tells you anything

Double Ouch. . . well, you haven't run out of power yet. . but why is it the second motor?

Is this standard industrial practice in rating hp? Anyway, now I am curious. Are there any maintenance manual for haas available that will show how I can take the machine apart to check under the hood to take a look at things like motors and ball screws and do some basic maintenance so I can get to know the machine better?

[Donkey Hotey]

Originally Posted by JohnJW Is this standard industrial practice in rating hp?

Did you read the post above yours? They have to rate the HP at some RPM. At the RPM these spindles run, the motor may very well be putting out that much horsepower. The rating on the motor plate is at that RPM only.

[PBMW]

Now I don't know, so go easy on me....But dosen't the current go down as the frequency rises to increase the rpm? Therefore it makes LESS power at higher rpm?
If you calculate the material removal rate of RPM and feed and DOC over time, you can calculate HP from that. It's all in the machinery's handbook. You'll see that it ain't makin anywhere NEAR 30 hp.