'03 TM-1, Whats it worth?

[smittys800]

Looking for opnions here,
What is an '03 TM-1 worth.
6k RPM
Floppy
Coolant System
Self made enclosure
LCD Monitor
Looking to possably upgrade to Fully enclosed VMC, Fadal is an option, but would need to sell the Tm-1 first.
Thanks for any advice,
Smitty

[PBMW]

Your wife won't let you do that.
Now git on back to wrenchin on them cars!!!

[Donkey Hotey]

Your best bet here would be to talk to your local dealer. Ask them if they know anybody that they could refer you to. I'm not talking about a consignment, just a 'good buddy' referral.

After all, if they give up a potential TM1 buyer to you, they get a VMC sale from you AND they gain another Haas repair/parts customer in their area. That one TM1 mill could change hands locally 3 or 4 times and every time somebody outgrows it, they could gain another 'new' sale and add another machine to their Haas customer base. It's win-win.

At least that's the way my local salesman views it.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by Donkey Hotey .......At least that's the way my local salesman views it.

How many salesmen have you met with that logical attitude? Being able to think ahead in tha manner is not common in my experience.

[Donkey Hotey]

Honestly? My local salesman does. The same salesman for Fourperf. He offered to help me if I ever wanted to buy a used machine. He told me he'd look up the history and try to steer me clear of bad deals or at least tell me the whole history of it.

I asked him 'why'. He told me it's because he believes in building a relationship with his customers. If he makes me a happy Haas owner now, I'll probably be back in the future for a new machine.

He never tried to 'hard sell' me into a new machine on either my VF-2 or TL-1 sales but both times, I ended up buying new (because it made more sense than anything I could find used).

And while I was finalizing my VF-2 options, I found a local T5C rotary. It was another one of his customers and he knew its history from the first sale. That customer had upgraded to a new VF-4SS and new rotary.

The salesman blessed the T5C as 'good' and even went so far as to call me the morning I was negotiating the deal. He was trying to add 4th axis to my machine while still in the build. I needed that before I finalized the deal on the rotary.

While waiting for word from the factory, another interested party was driving to look at the rotary. My salesman called me twice, leaving urgent messages to close the deal on the rotary before this other guy grabbed it. He earned nothing from that sale except the little bit added when I stepped up from some misc options to a VOP that included 4th axis.

Now that I think about it: my plan was to disassemble the T5C and just use the 5C and HRT210 as separate rotaries. My salesman pointed me to another local customer that had an unused outboard servo control sitting in a cabinet. That led me to getting a brand-new servo control for $500.

So my salesman helped me go from 3-axis to 4.5/5-axis in a couple of days. The only thing he gained was another $1-2K on the VF-2's options. He also helped two of his existing customers to get rid of unused equipment and added me to the 'family'.

I've told that story to plenty of local customers. That helps Haas to sell machines. At least that's the way it's worked for my local area. It should be noted though that my salesman has been with Haas for a very long time so he may not be the norm.

It really is too bad that more sales people don't work that way. Maybe those types get taken advantage of or don't succeed. In this guy's case though, it seems to work well.

Believe me Geof: I know how lucky I am to have local support like that and I let him know every time I talk to him.

Edit: I see that Smitty is in the Selway district. Sorry. From everything I've read on a couple of forums, they seem to be the 'alternate, dark universe' to my local HFO. Now I see why you're willing to consider a Fadal.

[ltmquik]

Originally Posted by smittys800 Looking for opnions here, What is an '03 TM-1 worth. 6k RPM Floppy Coolant System Self made enclosure LCD Monitor Looking to possably upgrade to Fully enclosed VMC, Fadal is an option, but would need to sell the Tm-1 first. Thanks for any advice, Smitty

I would stay away form the Fadals. Check out the Fadal forums on this site. There are not very many happy kids there. I have two Fadals and three HAAS. The HAAS blow the Fadals away both in performance and quality.

[PBMW]

I wouldn't buy a Fadal I don't think. I've also heard just too many horror stories about build quality and reliability. It's got to run for me to make any money with it.
I'm shopping for a Horizontal right now. Daewoo, Mori, Okuma, Kitamura are all on the list
My sales guys are also Selway. I've talked to Vince and he's told me they are changing and working hard....I havn't seen it though. I still know plenty of Selway customers that are not happy.
I understand that the level of servuce is better when you buy a higher end machine than a Haas. Selway also sells Matsuura, Toyoda, Makino....
I just can't bring myself to sign on a million dollar contract after my experience with them. That's a shame too. They sell some nice machines that I would certainly consider otherwise.
I may yet call Scott at Methods nad see what I can work cause I ain't buyin from Selway.

[smittys800]

Originally Posted by PBMW Your wife won't let you do that. Now git on back to wrenchin on them cars!!!

OUCH!!!
Actually, I'm primin her for the new addition, that WILL happen, the when is up in the air.
I would love to toss the wrench into the garbage, so tired of that crap, but got a heafty raise goin back to it.
So, the Fadals are bad MOJO? Even the older units, like '95/ '98?

[smittys800]

Originally Posted by Donkey Hotey Honestly? My local salesman does. The same salesman for Fourperf. He offered to help me if I ever wanted to buy a used machine. He told me he'd look up the history and try to steer me clear of bad deals or at least tell me the whole history of it. I asked him 'why'. He told me it's because he believes in building a relationship with his customers. If he makes me a happy Haas owner now, I'll probably be back in the future for a new machine. He never tried to 'hard sell' me into a new machine on either my VF-2 or TL-1 sales but both times, I ended up buying new (because it made more sense than anything I could find used). And while I was finalizing my VF-2 options, I found a local T5C rotary. It was another one of his customers and he knew its history from the first sale. That customer had upgraded to a new VF-4SS and new rotary. The salesman blessed the T5C as 'good' and even went so far as to call me the morning I was negotiating the deal. He was trying to add 4th axis to my machine while still in the build. I needed that before I finalized the deal on the rotary. While waiting for word from the factory, another interested party was driving to look at the rotary. My salesman called me twice, leaving urgent messages to close the deal on the rotary before this other guy grabbed it. He earned nothing from that sale except the little bit added when I stepped up from some misc options to a VOP that included 4th axis. Now that I think about it: my plan was to disassemble the T5C and just use the 5C and HRT210 as separate rotaries. My salesman pointed me to another local customer that had an unused outboard servo control sitting in a cabinet. That led me to getting a brand-new servo control for $500. So my salesman helped me go from 3-axis to 4.5/5-axis in a couple of days. The only thing he gained was another $1-2K on the VF-2's options. He also helped two of his existing customers to get rid of unused equipment and added me to the 'family'. I've told that story to plenty of local customers. That helps Haas to sell machines. At least that's the way it's worked for my local area. It should be noted though that my salesman has been with Haas for a very long time so he may not be the norm. It really is too bad that more sales people don't work that way. Maybe those types get taken advantage of or don't succeed. In this guy's case though, it seems to work well. Believe me Geof: I know how lucky I am to have local support like that and I let him know every time I talk to him. Edit: I see that Smitty is in the Selway district. Sorry. From everything I've read on a couple of forums, they seem to be the 'alternate, dark universe' to my local HFO. Now I see why you're willing to consider a Fadal.

Actually,
I bought my TM-1 from Vince. Got a very good deal from him, why, to this day not I do not know. So I called him and put the bug in his ear that I was looking to upgrade. Sounds like a little internal work is going on there, did not get the whole scoop.
So we will see what Vince can find me, sounds like a few guys are on the fence with the Westec discount going on, they might pull the trigger an a new machine and sell the old.
Time will tell,
Thanks for the advice,
Smitty

[ltmquik]

Originally Posted by smittys800 OUCH!!! So, the Fadals are bad MOJO? Even the older units, like '95/ '98?

Old and slow. Definately more reliable than what is being produced now though. I would say 2002 and older are worth looking at if they have low spindle hours.

My opinion is that a new machine has a warranty which will keep you "free" for at least a year. I also heard that HAAS offers extended warranties though I have not personally checked into that yet.

[ltmquik]

Also, check out the price of Fadals replacement parts. They are way more expensive than that of other machine manufactures. For example an axis card from Fadal is $2200.00 and they go out alot! I think that HAAS are less than $500.00. I don't know for sure because I have yet to have any problems with our HAAS machines.