Need Help!- Alarm code 123 VF-3

[Nova]

My machine has started to come up with the alarm code 123. The last job I did I heard the RPM drop about 30 Rpm every once in a while. Now the alarm trips sporadically. It may go off within a few minutes or it could be an hour. Most of the time it does it when it's idle. Could this be an in put power fluctuation or would this be a machine problem? I have checked the 3 Ph power and all phases are 237-240. I have had the machine for about a month and its a 2001 VF-3, 20 HP, 7500 spindle. There are no blown fuses and the motor fan is working, although 1 of the 2 fans on the vector drive is dead.

Any help would be great.
Thanks Stephen

[serviceman]

if one of the fans on the vector drive is dead replace it haas sells a vector drive fan kit or you can source them at newarkinone.com overheating causes 123 alarms

[Nova]

While agree that I should change the fans I don't think thats the problem. I did a week of milling 500' flat bar at 70% power and it didn't trip the alarm once. That was when I noticed that the RPM dropped for about 1 second every once in a while. Another time I had just turned it on and about 2 minutes later it tripped.

Stephen

[Donkey Hotey]

123 is a Spindle Fault, right? That's not good news. The vector drive is pricey. Replace those fans right now...no, I mean right now. Even the components inside will blind you with cost (if you try to fix it yourself).

If yours is the same generation of vector drive as the one that came in my 2004 machine, this is my opinion of what could be failing (in order):

1. DC power supply inside the vector drive: It supplies the low-voltage to run all the logic circuits. There isn't much to it. It's a commercial part (in mine) and I was able to find it in the Newark catalog. If it's getting flakey, it could cause all kinds of intermittent woes. It's about $30 IIRC.
2. The power supply capacitors: There are a couple of big, honkin' blue capacitors in there. If one or both is losing value, it could cause you some problems. Of course that would be more likely under load so this doesn't sound like your problem. They are about $80 each.
3. A failing IGBT: These are the big switching transistors inside the vector drive. They have large screw terminals on them (ya' can't miss 'em). They're expensive. They're hard to find. They may not be the problem. They would cause problems under power or not because they could be false triggering or doing other weird things. The drive has three of them. They're about $100 each on the used (surplus) market and double that for new ones (ouch).
4. The logic board: you can't replace this. It's part of the drive. Haas won't sell you one. If it's bad, you have no way to know until you've replaced all of the other components.

I replaced most of the internal components. It turned out to be the logic board. I actually traced it around the circuits until the line disappeared inside the board. I ended up needing a whole vector drive and the money spent on parts was wasted...well...except that I know too much about their internals now.

[JoBwan]

Originally Posted by Donkey Hotey 123 is a Spindle Fault, right? That's not good news. The vector drive is pricey. Replace those fans right now...no, I mean right now.

I have to agree, or go straight to jail and do not pass go. LOL.
Seriously, I have googled "ETRI". The brand of the fan and bought them for $9.00 ea. with $7.95 for S&H. It can save you $1774.00.. Do it now!

[Nova]

I have ordered new fans, I'm changing both as I would expect the other one will die sometime soon. Cross my fingers thats the problem. I should have them installed tomorrow. I will update as to wether this fixed the problem. Thanks for your help.

Stephen

[Nova]

Well no luck with the new fans. I have talked to 2 technitions and they are puzzled. I will have to get the local haas rep in to look at it. The fault light has never come on the vector drive it self. It seems to do it mostly when it's sitting idle. I ran a warm up cycle for about an hour and it didn't fault once. Weird!!

Stephen

[serviceman]

there was a vintage of vector drives that had 123 alarms because they sensed ground faults in the power line usually this only happens on ungrounded systems like delta which is usually 240 volts with no ground reference. the haas machines are not meant to be run on ungrounded supplies and i do not think there are many companies out there that will ground a delta system. sometimes the vector drive interprets a phase imbalance as a ground fault and it may be. there may be a machine in your shop that throws what looks to be a ground fault on a delta circuit since the voltage does not have a ground reference the stray voltage just bounces around the 3 phase circuit. if you are able to reset the alarm right away and continue then this may be your problem. the way to solve it is to get a 240 to 208 wye isolation transformer about $1,000.00 plus installation. i have solved many a 123 alarm this way. hfo may be scratching their heads for a long time. another way to see is shut everything off except for the haas and see if the problem persists. check your wiring especially the grounds since you have 240 vac the ground is only a frame ground and is not referenced to the supply. haas power requirements are for a grounded supply ie wye configured which you do not have.
good luck

[Nova]

YES!!!!!!!!!! That may be the problem. I have phase ground lights and somthing has been happening. When I first started here 2 years ago all 3 lights were on but dim. Then a few months a go 1 went out and the remaining 2 were bright. I called the power company and they said that none of the phases should be grounding, ie non of the lights should be on. I will call a local electrition about this.

THANK YOU!!!

[whiteboy]

Having a very similar problem with our VFO, got the added bonus of also getting Alarms 119 (Over Voltage) and 160 (Low Voltage). Cracked open cabinet when we started getting the Alarm(s) and found that the Vector Dive fans were not running at all. Vector Drive unit was VERY warm to the touch. Shut machine down immediately and here we are.....

So..... Getting the fans is no problem but how do I get into the Vector Drive to replace them??? The Haas tech that installed the machine several years ago pretty much told me I'd burn in hell if I ever tried to get into the unit. Too bad for him because I have to get this pig running....

Any help is GREATLY appreciated!!!

Steve

[Donkey Hotey]

Everything is posted earlier in this thread. If you need it running ASAP, just get another one from Haas. If you're not comfortable tearing into electronics, just get another one from Haas.

Once the power is off and the red power LED finally fades out (about 10 minutes), it's safe to take apart.

There are some big capacitors in there and they're charged at 320VDC. They will make you dead. They will make screwdriver tips explode. This is not a joke.

Absolutely wait until that light goes out, indicating that they have bled down. Just to be sure, you can probe the output wires to make sure they're discharged.

There is a fair chance that something obvious failed (perhaps the low-volt power supply or the rectifier bridge). You still need to know how to troubleshoot once you get it open.

[whiteboy]

Originally Posted by Donkey Hotey Everything is posted earlier in this thread. If you need it running ASAP, just get another one from Haas. If you're not comfortable tearing into electronics, just get another one from Haas. Once the power is off and the red power LED finally fades out (about 10 minutes), it's safe to take apart. There are some big capacitors in there and they're charged at 320VDC. They will make you dead. They will make screwdriver tips explode. This is not a joke. Absolutely wait until that light goes out, indicating that they have bled down. Just to be sure, you can probe the output wires to make sure they're discharged. There is a fair chance that something obvious failed (perhaps the low-volt power supply or the rectifier bridge). You still need to know how to troubleshoot once you get it open.

That would be roughly what our service/repair man told me when I called him. Needless to say I called our Haas HFO and ordered the fans so he can do the replacement.

After talking to Rich (our service guy) and a gentleman at Haas' Service Department, I offer this bit of info;
1) It is possible for the fans to be swapped out by someone other than a Haas trained tech
2) They WILL NOT tell you how to do this swap
3) You can DIE very quickly and painfully if you screw up
4) See #3
5) See #4

78.00 for the fan kit and the charge for the service call is a no-brainer.......