Using a CNC mill as a lathe

[Geof]

Originally Posted by Vern Smith sotto voce? from the land of the Romans, I thought your recent visit to the Germanic canal/river system spoke of a different heritage, like Smith.

Heritage? Anglo Saxon, probably. Anyway the river system you must be referring to spends more of its time in non-Germanic regions, doesn't it? I would have to refer to Google Earth to confirm, but the system I have that loaded onto is down at the present.

[Vern Smith]

The reference is very dependent on the time frame. If my fading memory is correct the Romans considered all area north of the Alps the preserves of the Goths, Visigoths, Celts, and various Mongol Hordes. Most of these aggressive fellows who resided on the European continent were considered Germanic tribes.

Please don't consider this an attempt to cast dispersions on your heritage which seems to be Celtic or Norse by your description. My Mothers side (McCracken) is very Scott / Irish I'm told, who shared the British Isles with your ancestors.

It will be interesting to see what the moderators think about the digressions of this thread tomorrow morning.

[Geof]

I did a quick check to make sure this was your thread so if you are aiding and abetting in a hijack that is okay, I think.

Don't worry about casting aspersions on heritage; I do not really have much idea about my own but it is probably Germanic.

think rather than North of the Alps it was North of the Danube; that acted as the most effective barrier. There were several Roman settlements on the Danube; well the South side that is.

And if your heritage is Scottish/Irish you should find some books about recent genetic studies. I read one recently which looked at the genetic heritage of the MacDonalds that came to the conclusion that the founder of the clan was actually Scandinavian, from Viking times, not Scottish.

So you might be the Norseman, not me.

And don't worry too much about moderators, if you started the thread surely it can go in your direction?

[Shotout]

Originally Posted by Geof And if your heritage is Scottish/Irish you should find some books about recent genetic studies. I read one recently which looked at the genetic heritage of the MacDonalds that came to the conclusion that the founder of the clan was actually Scandinavian, from Viking times, not Scottish.

Just an aside to the digression. If either of you are interested check out PREBBLE, JOHN The Lion in the North. One thousend years of Scotland's history, 1973. It goes into depth about the Norse influence in Scotch history.

On topic. How well could a threading cycle be performed with this kind of setup using a lathe ID threading tool? I'm sitting here twirling my fingers and thinking that with a plunge in Z with the appropriate speed/feed rate could produce either hand thread depending on the spindle rotation, using a left and right hand tool. Or one tool and make a Z-/Z+ move as appropriate. Could spindle orientation be added to this to to allow for a spring/finish pass too?

[Geof]

Originally Posted by Shotout Just an aside to the digression. If either of you are interested check out PREBBLE, JOHN The Lion in the North. One thousend years of Scotland's history, 1973. It goes into depth about the Norse influence in Scotch history. On topic. How well could a threading cycle be performed with this kind of setup using a lathe ID threading tool? I'm sitting here twirling my fingers and thinking...

I will check the book, and on that topic have you read the called something like; "How Scotland Came To Rule The World".

On the thread topic: Twirling fingers is okay, I do that a lot, but thinking? Getting into risky territory here, might hurt my brain.

I mentioned it a few posts back just as an aside and then did think a bit and convinced myself it would not be possible. For lathe threading the spindle rotation and Z axis movement have to be synchronized with respect to speed; rpm to ipm. But there is additional synchronization between the X axis, the spindle orientation and the Z axis so that the tool enters and leaves the cut at the same point. You probably could code the moves for a single threading pass that may come out quite good because the rpm and feed rate are quite constant, but would you ever get back to the same start point for a second pass. Unlikely to the point of being impossible I think.

Tapping would be possible but for external threads you would need a die-head; of which, I have one sitting on a shelf somewhere left over from my pre-CNC days.

[Shotout]

Originally Posted by Geof I will check the book, and on that topic have you read the called something like; "How Scotland Came To Rule The World". On the thread topic: Twirling fingers is okay, I do that a lot, but thinking? Getting into risky territory here, might hurt my brain. I mentioned it a few posts back just as an aside and then did think a bit and convinced myself it would not be possible. For lathe threading the spindle rotation and Z axis movement have to be synchronized with respect to speed; rpm to ipm. But there is additional synchronization between the X axis, the spindle orientation and the Z axis so that the tool enters and leaves the cut at the same point. You probably could code the moves for a single threading pass that may come out quite good because the rpm and feed rate are quite constant, but would you ever get back to the same start point for a second pass. Unlikely to the point of being impossible I think. Tapping would be possible but for external threads you would need a die-head; of which, I have one sitting on a shelf somewhere left over from my pre-CNC days.

I'll check it out. As a 3rd generation removed Scot myself I enjoy reading how most great statesmen and inventors in western society have been Scots or descended from Scots, little racial pride showing

I twirl my fingers so I don't hurt my brain! It always tickled my instructor in school, even more so my wife when I was doing homework. My Mickey Mouse (Sorcerer's Apprentice) cutter comp technique she called it.

I missed the threading post from earlier in the thread, sorry. Will go back and read it. Of course a lot of parts could be later thread milled with a different setup as a secondary OP I guess. Our shop has a pretty good lathe but as an exercise in thinking outside of the my norms I find this a pretty interesting thread and it is giving me ideas, thanks to you for that Vern. Think about several blanks in tool holders in the ATC and making this all a series of subs like you've (Geof) posted in the past. It could allow someone to make some parts or assemblies without having to sub the lathe work out.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by Shotout I'll check it out. As a 3rd generation removed Scot myself I enjoy reading how most great statesmen and inventors in western society have been Scots or descended from Scots, little racial pride showing ....

That is exactly what the book is about but I did get the title wrong. It starts somewhat before the Act of Union back in the 1700s and then follows through all the developments made by people who where either Scottish or educated in Scottish universities or other universities founded by Scotsmen.

I am all in favor about thinking outside the norm; I wondered about starting a thread "What is the most 'outside the box' setup or machine use you have done".

[Shotout]

Originally Posted by Geof I am all in favor about thinking outside the norm; I wondered about starting a thread "What is the most 'outside the box' setup or machine use you have done".

I might have to refrain from posting to that one. I couldn't stand to have you all laughing at me!
What was is Clemons said, better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt

Vern have you given much thought to the first "millathe" project you plan to program for? A plumb bob might be an idea. It would cover the radius and tapers you were asking about earlier. Just a thought.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by Shotout I might have to refrain from posting to that one. I couldn't stand to have you all laughing at me! What was is Clemons said, better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt ....

It is unlikely I will ever laugh at anyone because they tried a crazy idea and it worked; I may laugh with them when they try a crazy idea and it doesn't work; my response to people who are to stodgy to try crazy ideas is not to laugh but just shake my head.

The plumb bob is a good idea whether you are using a millasalathe or using a lathe; and the finished item is useful.

[Vern Smith]

Think about several blanks in tool holders in the ATC and making this all a series of subs like you've (Geof) posted in the past. It could allow someone to make some parts or assemblies without having to sub the lathe work out.[/quote]

Dear Lord, now I have to figure out subroutines as well. I'm not sure all this is within my grasp.

There are a specific and very simple pair of aluminum flange bushings I had in mind when Matt's video caught my eye. It took me almost 7 hours to make them on my El Cheapo manual lathe and bored me to death. I agree the plumb bob is a good test subject; however, at this point I'm trying to learn enough hand coding and how G12 works for offsets that avoiding a crash is priority number one.

The Haas teck showed up today and installed my Renishaw system so learning how to use that is currently on the front burner. In the short demo he did for me I can see it will save me hours and hours, which I can devote to hand coding, g12, sub routines, etc. etc.

To digress to ancestors, history has given the Norseman or Vikings a bad rap. These guys were amazing. Not only were they fearless seafarers but they traveled incredible distances to trade. Many archaeologists have found their artifacts on the shore of the Black Sea. They are credited with using the river systems of interior Russia and Belarus to get there. Only problem is several areas required portages of up to 100 miles between river systems. Can you imagine carrying river boats full of goods to trade with the Persians over land for 100 miles. These were some heavy duty fellows

Vern

[Matt@RFR]

Geez, don't any of you guys work during the day?!

Vern, check out the attached program. It is incredibly simple to do subs...if I can, then you can, trust me on that. The attached program is a whole-machine warmup. My mill can sit for up to two weeks at a time, so this gives me some piece of mind.

As far as threading goes, I've yet to try it but I'm tempted to say that thread milling would produce low enough forces that a drill chuck could be employed to hold the thread mill and bingo, you can thread ID and OD. I would think that thread mill canned cycles or CAM outputs would be exactly the same as when using your mill as a (ghasp!!) mill.

[Vern Smith]

Matt,

Thanks for the warm up program with the two (I think) subroutines. If you tell me that M97 followed by P1000 is calling a subroutine starting on line number N1000, then I think I've got it.

Assuming we use G12 to move from tool station to tool station would subroutines be used to simple rerun the entire program after the tool change brings in a fresh blank?

I've been giving the idea of running multiple blanks with tool changes some thought and I'm a little concerned about finished pieces laying around at places we don't want them. Maybe we need to put a small whisk broom in one of the collet holders and call it every couple of cycles to sweep the table free of any finished parts that didn't fall where intended?