New TM-1

[maxine]

I decided I'd better start my own thread ... As a CNC newby I am guessing that I will have lots of questions. Maybe someone else new can learn from this too.

My new TM-1 was delivered several weeks ago. I got the larger screen with USB, coolant, tool changer, extended chip pans, rigid tap etc. I bought a set of end mill holders, er-16 collets and holders and er-32 collets and holders from Mari Tool along with a new Kurt vise from a local machinery supplier. I'm wired up with 3 phase power (50 amp) and my shop has piped in air passed through a large dessicant dryer.

Progress so far (posted elsewhere) is: The machine had spindle encoder errors when the Selway Tool service guy tried to do the set up. But after some head scratching Selway came through for me, figured out that some parameters were set wrong at the fatory and came back a week later and reentered the correct data. Everything works fine now. While diagnosing the problems the Tech deleted all the programs out of memory on the machine but I discovered with a little help (thanks Geof) that the programs were stored on the memory stick that came with the machine. So I was able to reinstall quick code and visual quick code after finding the readme file and a little experimentation. There are a bunch of other programs on there but I haven't figured out if I want them yet.

I have Alibre CAD/CAM so I am going to try that for a while. The CAM looks pretty weak but I am just learning so we shall see. The CAD program has been pretty easy to learn so far.

So that's my set up.

[maxine]

First question ... I had a set of cheap end mills from Grizzly that were new so I figured I would learn with them but I don't think they are going to hold up in the CNC for the long run. So what brand and supplier should I be looking for to get some decent quality CNC end mills?

Initially I will just be looking for a basic set of flat end mills and a set of ball end mills, 1/8" through 3/4 or maybe 1". I will be using them for cutting a mix of mild steel, 4130n and aluminum. Probably 50% will be 6061 aluminum.

What brand/brands are decent quality but not too high in price (ie good value)?
Who is a good supplier for me to use (I am located north of Seattle)?
Should I be thinking HSS or carbide?
I was planning to hold off on indexable cutters (other than a 3" face mill) for now. Is that a mistake?

Any input would be welcomed.

[ChAlKbOaRd]

All of this really comes down to personal opinion.

What brand/brands are decent quality but not too high in price (ie good value)?
--Just remember that HSS is HSS...and carbide is carbide. Alot of times you will be paying for only the name. With cutting tools, you normally get what you pay for. Search, shop, and see what the average price for a specific cutting tool is. That way you will get a standard marketing price and not pay too little for a "cheap-o" or too much for a cutting tool that is the same as the rest!

Who is a good supplier for me to use (I am located north of Seattle)?
--I have been with J&L Industrial for many years and they yet to let me down. The prices are tough to beat, they have almost everything in stock, and their online store is very easy to navigate. Being located North of Seattle, J&L might be a possible option for you as well! www.jlindustrial.com.

Should I be thinking HSS or carbide?
--The dreaded question...8D I cut 6061 all day for sprint car parts, brackets, etc. HSS has always worked for me. I feel that HSS leaves a smoother finish on softer metals such as aluminum, but this is strictly based on personal preference. It all comes down to the operater, the program, and the stock being cut. Depending on what you will be cutting most of the time is what should influence your decision on HSS or Carbide cutting tools.

I was planning to hold off on indexable cutters (other than a 3" face mill) for now. Is that a mistake?
---Not at all. If you need them later on down the road, just order them! Don't order too much and then never use the stuff. Stick with the basics, spoil yourself with a few goodies, and later on down the road see what your projects are and base your decision upon that factor!

By the way, rigid tapping is incredible. You might want to look into some high speed taps if you haven't already! 8D

[Geof]

Go with carbide for everything.

Maybe do not get anything even as large 3/4" for the moment; the TM does not have oodles of power so you may find anything larger than 5/8", or even 1/2" does not get you anywhere because the power limits your feed, depth of cut and step over.

For aluminum go with the high helix cutters in micrograin carbide made for aluminum. Two or three flute, nothing more than three unless you want to get a very nice finish around a profile on a final cut taking off very little material.

For mild steel go for coated carbide, somebody else will have to give you suggestions on this because I don't have it in my memory .

For the 4130 I feel that insert cutters are best because you can cut dry with an airblast and tweak your speeds and feeds to get a good hot chip with very good tool life. My experience is the standard end mills will overheat and fail under conditions that an insert cutter just sails through.

I suggest not getting a 3" insert face mill because you do not have the power to drive it effectively in steel. Have a look at the discussion in this thread:

SFM....again!

I give some information about face milling hot rolled steel in a Super MiniMill which has almost twice the power of a TM.

[slatern44]

Talk with the guys at Western Cutting Tools. They have there main office in California but two other locations one in Portland and the other in Seattle. There number for the portland store is 503-786-0310 and they will transfer you or give you the number for seattle. They are great and will help you get started. Hopefully they are close to you and then you can just stop by and get tons of catalogs for you to look at and most have list prices in them. But you will not pay anywhere near that.
Hope this helps.
And yes only go carbide for everything.

[maxine]

Thanks for the advice fellas. I'll go with carbide tools up to 1/2" for now and I'll check out J&L and call Western Cutting Tools. And I hadn't even thought about taps yet but yes, good point I will need some good ones. Geof given your advice I will hold off on buying the face mill for now. I think I know where I can borrow one that size for an afternoon just to see how well my machine handles it. Maybe I will discover that an indexable 1 1/2" or 2" end mill would be better? Since I am just learning the machine I haven't taken any heavy cuts yet so I have no feel at all for how much load it can handle. I am trying to go slow and steady and learn the G code really well first with reduced rapids, shallow cuts and slow feeds for now. I thought long and hard about buying this machine, so now that it is here for sure I don't want to crash it.

Thanks again for the advice.

[slatern44]

Yes get ahold of Western on Wednesday and they will help you get started. Tell them to get you a OSG catalog sent out to you to look at. OSG makes great taps along with "Good" end mills for the price. Of course there is always better but OSG makes a great product.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by maxine .....I will hold off on buying the face mill for now. I think I know where I can borrow one that size for an afternoon just to see how well my machine handles it. Maybe I will discover that an indexable 1 1/2" or 2" end mill would be better? Since I am just learning the machine I haven't taken any heavy cuts yet so I have no feel at all for how much load it can handle. .....

The pictures I posted in the thread I referred you to were showing the results with a 1-1/2" diameter Iscar face mill with 4 inserts.

For your experimenting to find the capabilities of your machine I suggest you go to Setting 84 TOOL OVERLOAD ACTION and set it on AUTOFEED then under CURRENT COMMANDS find the page that has the Tool Load settings and make the Tool Load Limit 120%. This way if you get carried away the machine will back off the feed when the spindle load gets over 120%. You can still stall the spindle but at the same time the feed goes to zero so there is not much chance of causing damage.

[maxine]

Ok I went to that thread but I didn't notice that was a 1 1/2" cutter. Thanks. As far as messing with the settings goes, why do you say to use 120% for the load limit? I mean as opposed to limiting it to 100%. Does that mean that for short periods if the tool loads up beyond 100% the feed will slow and then presumadly the load drops back down below 100% ? Or is running over 100% ok? I am just doing prototyping and going slow learning so I don't need to push this thing to the max.

Also I assume am am OK to mess with the settings right, just not the parameters? So far all I have been doing is changing setting 51 so the hand switch isn't required. Do I need to record all of the settings before I change any or is there an option that will set them back to the defaults somehow in case I get in trouble?

I read several threads I found on tool selection last night and if I had to pick a theme it seems like OSG was a popular suggestion for end mills ... but like chalkboard said there was alot of personal preference and variety as to what the "best value" was. Some heated debate. I found some references to suppliers so on Wed I'll try calling Western Tool as well as a couple of the others that I saw listed like discount tool and cetsonline.com.

Thanks again for the advice Geof, you have been a big help to me.

[Geof]

The only reason we use 120% as the load limit is that the spindle can be run for 30 minutes continuous at this load before it times out. We do production work and time is money so we want to push things as far as is sensible. The load actually does go a bit above 120% because the feed drops in 10% increments and if that is not enough the keeps climbing a bit.

The reason I suggest using this feature even when you do not need to push things is that it protects your tools. If you stall the spindle it is nearly always bye bye tool. Also if you cram a holder into a vise or something the increased spindle load will back off the feed and reduce the chance of serious damage.

On a similar note I always start the spindle before doing the first rapid move into position. This way if you have goofed and rapid your spindle into the part or a vise jaw it hits spinning. Admittedly the spindle overload feature is not active in rapid so the feed does not slow down until the servo overloads or gives a following error. However, when the spindle hits turning there is much less chance of destroying your spindle bearings; if you cram a stationary spindle into something really solid you have a chance of 'brinelling' the ball races and that means bye bye bearings. Google 'brinelling ball races' to find out what I am talking about.

When you do this sequence to save time you have to turn on SPINDLE NO WAIT. This means that if the line immediately following the M03 command is a rapid move the machine does not wait for the spindle to come up to speed before it executes the rapid; it waits at the end of the rapid for the spindle to be at speed before a feed move.

I think SPINDLE NOWAIT is a parameter but I am not sure.

When you change Settings or Parameters the old value gets stored in the Alarm list but it is a good idea to record them for reference so you know where you are. I think the only way to set them back to the factory values is reload them from the memory stick you got. Which, incidentally I would back up onto another stick and reload from the back up just in case I fat fingered somethging and finished up saving the modified values onto the stick rather than reading the stick values into the machine...easy to do

[maxine]

OK, I understand clearly now. Thank you for taking the time to explain.

[DSL PWR]

As stated in this thread light and fast is the key for the TM-1. I use a 2" inserted face mill. I run it at 1200rpm, which is right around the peak torque for this spindle. I also run a 3/4" insert endmill at 3050rpm, which keeps inside the top stock rpm. With these tools the limit to how deep you go is limited by the ridgitity of the machine not the spindle.

I have recently purchased a 1.25" high feed endmill. I run a .035 doc, with a .04 chip load. So that makes it 1300rpm and 100ipm. This was in 1045. The machine seems to handle the cutter well, and it works out to be about 3 X faster for hogging material than my 3/4" insert mill.

Good luck, and remember the tooling is more expensive than drugs...