Haas TM1 tool Changer by Gifu

[DJPdesign]

I am new here and relatively new to CNCing, although have experience on manual machines.

I have the opportunity to buy a Tool Changer made by Gifu enterprise ltd.
This unit is very similar to the one shown in the link below.

http://www.atcgifu.com/htm/product-v3.htm

Does anyone have experience with these ATC’s? In Europe we could not get a TM1 with an ATC, at the time of purchase. CE rules

I would like to fit this to a 2006 TM1. I have no problem with making a bracket to hold the changer and lining it up, my concerns are with the wiring and code.

Does anyone know the wiring outputs on the Haas Machine, I assume that the TM1 would be similar to other machines (especially the TM1-P). I wander if Haas need an unlock code or something to enable this feature. I also don’t have any code that would provoke a tool change on the machine so I can start looking for outputs.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Great forum by the way.

Dan

[axis]

that is some cool stuff
but you realy think in both time and money it will be cheaper in the end to retro fit this on a tm1 what is wrong with the umbrella tool change
it would probly be just as expencive to trade in you tm and get a vf2 with the side mount tool changer then it would be to mount this style and deal with all problems.
that sead good luck send pics if it works out.

[DEAN]

How much is the Chinese tool changer?
I think you would be better off buying the HAAS unit and installing it yourself.

[SORCHEROR]

you are better off getting one from hass,and yes it needs a code to unlock the functions,i have a 2006 tm1 with tool changer,the changer costs around $6,500 us dollars,plus installation,the hass one is easy to install,but im not sure about the legalities over where you are,if you could afford it,hass now hass a full enclosure for the tm-1,if you install that,then it would comply and you can than up grade to a tool changer and higher rpm spindle,the spindle is just a code to punch in to get 6,000 rpms instead of 4,000

[SORCHEROR]

i will look at my machine to see where its all hooked up to for you and the outputs

[DJPdesign]

Thanks you for all of your help.
I have been talking to Haas in the UK, and they will NOT help with the pin outs, or the unlock code…. Its all to do with CE rules in the UK. :-(
Socheror, I would be very interested in the pinouts if you have a minute.

I would happily pay for the Haas changer, but they will not sell me one.
Seems like my only option from Hass is to change machine to get a changer.

Hence the interest in this ATC.

I am still looking into it but without the unlock codes from Hass it maybe impossible / impractical.

Anyway thanks again for your help

Dan

[Geof]

There may be another way around your problem. Put in a "wine rack" tool changer. This is a rack at the end of the table just within reach of the spindle at full negative table travel. The rack holds the tools and has a key so they are always correctly aligned. You write the code to have the machine put the tools in and out of the rack. You may need to get spindle orientation and macros activated so you can simply write a tool change macro that you call from your program.

The disadvantage with this method is you lose some table travel. You can't work in the area occupied by the tool rack but this is only about 100mm loss.

I seem to recall this has been discussed somewhere in the Haas forum and it is possible pit202 has some ideas about this approach.

[pit202]

I have TM-1 and still looking for a ATC , the linear changer at the table is for me useless , I need full X travel and it is limited by 4 tools . My TM is from 2005 , and I can set up tool changer without any code , where did you see a ATC code ?

[DJPdesign]

Thanks for your help and advice.
I have played about with a wine rack type changer (more pick and place) with the help of pit202.
I have a design for a 4 x 2 tool rack, 8 tools on total. This moves on from the side on linear bearings with a big air ram, so that it will not take any table space.

I would like a full on tool changer like the one I mentioned. The problem for me is not mounting the changer or getting it. Its interfacing with the controller. Calling the ATC, changing the tool, indexing the changer. (Terminology may not be right here).

Haas will not unlock the ATC functions for me, and do not seem to want to help retro fitting this type of changer.

This is where I am stuck, how to talk to the changer.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Dan

[Geof]

Originally Posted by DJPdesign ....This is where I am stuck, how to talk to the changer. Any ideas? Thanks Dan

You should be able to do something using the M21 function. This provides a relay closure that you can use to initiate an external operation and then the machine waits until it gets an external switch closure indicating the operation is complete. There is a rather poor explanation in the Mill Manual.

The connector for the User M functions is probably not installed on your machines but the relays and software are present. You can check by entering M21 and a few following lines of code in MDI and pushing Cycle Start. The machine should read the M21 then stop showing M FIN* on the screen.

I am in the process of designing a puller sequenced with a collet chuck on a TL1 and plan on using two or more User M functions. Only M21 gives the pause waiting for the M FIN signal, which then opens the internal relay. I want the internal relay(s) to stay closed through several operations that have to be completed in sequence. I plan on using M52 to initiate one operation then look for a switch closure with M21/MFIN so I know that is complete. Then use M53 for the next and again look for a switch closure, etc.

In principle this is not much different to what you need to run the shuttle motor and carousel motor on a toolchanger.

I have not actually done any of this so it is possible I am out to lunch but it works okay in my mind and the local Haas tech agrees it should be possible.

[DJPdesign]

Geof,
Thank you very much for this reply, most enlightening. I can see light at the end of the tunnel! Sounds like it should be possible and actually quite a good challenge. It would be great to get this machine running with the 40 tool ATC. This is not going to be a fast process, but I can now see how it can be done, thank you very much for your input.

Dan

[Geof]

Originally Posted by DJPdesign .... It would be great to get this machine running with the 40 tool ATC. ..Dan

That size hanging off a TM1 boggles the mind a bit but I have been told about a more extreme example. According to the local Haas Tech someone near me has built a 120 ATC for a VF0. A long chain mechanism with the tool grippers mounted on the chain and the chain running around something on the existing carousel, or replacing it, and out to an idler wheel 8 feet away from the machine. That sounded wild enough but then he said the guy had made all the Cat40 tooholders out of aluminum!!!!! Apparently it is just many different size drills.