Haas MiniMill or Matsuura Tiger?

[extanker59]

BTW, I liked Yasnac better when we first got it due to the added canned cycles over Fanuc. But I've seen those added to the Fanuc since then. I felt it was easier to program than Fanuc.

[jreillycnc1]

Matsura's are built to last and I see many old ones still. Haas, although they have a big following are not even close to being in the same class. The Matsura, even though it is a smaller taper will outcut the Haas. Haas uses duty cycles that are in the seconds to rate their drives and spindles. In the case of a new Machine a 20 Hp Haas will be a 7.5 HP Japanese spindle that conforms to JIS standards. The service guy will do stuff for free sometimes because he will become a needed friend that you will need often. You will get to like the control and you will fall into growing into New Haas machines, which will often give any competitors that don't use Haas a big competitive adavantage. I just watched a Tawianese machine that wan not even very good, out cut a Haas 2 to 1 in Stainless. I could only imagine what the difference would be in Japanese built. Haas machines are usually bought because they look good astectically, guys on the floor like the control, a feeling of security choosing a popular machine, and they can get the job done (slower but done). If you plan to grow based on your ability to make chips and produce accurate parts, you will be much better off with the Matsura.

[extanker59]

A lot of opinions there that sound like a sales pitch. Do you work for them? Forgive me if I'm off base, just the way it reads seems overblown.

[WallyL7]

The service guy will do stuff for free sometimes because he will become a needed friend that you will need often.

LOL. That is the opposite of truth.

[eaglemike]

Yasnac controls have very few issues really I havent seen any.
Ive had 8 machines both lathes and mills with yasnacs.
funny people talk about down time.
Ive been doing this for almost 30 years in 3 shops including my own, have a ton of buddies with shops and lots of machines, all brands. none of them have downtime its very rare to have down time, unless you have a operator that crashs machines.
I probly shouldnt have said anything cause I will more than likely jinx myself.

No experience w/Yasnac, sounds like they are good. Before I had my own place, we had a lot of Fanuc and Mazatrol stuff. Seemed like every other week one of them was down. :banghead:
That's why I use Haas, almost never down. My 1997 or 1998 VF-2 has been down maybe 3X in the 6 or 7 years I've owned it. I bought it used, the other stuff new. 2007 Super Mini down 2x since new, only for a day each time.
( I know about the jinx, knocking on wood here)
Nope don't work for Haas, or even get any screaming deals. Just a satisfied customer - and I'm the guy that uses and pays for the machines.

[jreillycnc1]

I doubt anyone is working for Matsura and promoting a tiger, when they don't even make standard verticals anymore. The tiger will be far better built and if he grows, he will make more parts, faster with something else. This is not to take away from anyone that buys one. It is actually a compliment that they can do more with less. The machine is only one part of the equation but if you are using a Haas there are a lot of people that can do it better and faster for less money 90% of the time. Sorry if that bothers some people. I am sure if people were aware of this, they would not go that route but it is popular and popular feels safe. I bougt an Ipad for the same reason but I ended up with something else.

[JohnJW]

I am newbie. While Matsura may be a great machine, as with any used machine, what happens if something breaks? Where do you get help, parts and service. If you like it and you grow, where do you get another one?

If I already have a Matsura in the shop and I like how it performance, I wouldn't mind buying another used one, especially at the price that one went for. However, just starting out, especially here in the US, I don't think you can beat a Haas for value.

[underthetire]

Matsuura has been around a lot longer than haas. Parts and service are no problem on the machine. Controller, well, like I said, yasnac is gone. I don't agree with the whole motor thing vs a haas, since haas uses yaskawa motors just like the matsuura would, only newer.

[jreillycnc1]

Haas does not use Yaskawa. They use Lincoln Electric.
They do not publish information like this along with spindle or drive tourque curve charts. It is true that Haas would be good for someone starting out. The problem lies that very often as the company grows and productivity requirements go up, companies will tend to stay with Haas because the control is easy to use. Despite great Haas marketing efforts to prove they are the answer for all applications, if your profit is directly related to making chips, you will outgrow Haas capabilties. It takes more labor and cycle time to run Haas, Many people look at it differently. The machine's all do the same thing and that is a recipe for getting passed over by larger customers and leave you in a lower tier supplier role. Just one opinion that would fit other machines in the same class. Marketing and Popularity have brought them to the table for applications where they don't belong. I take nothing from Haas as its the buyers responsibility to be dilligent and educated.

[double a-ron]

Wow, and I got called a haas basher for suggesting a better way to order parts...

[haastec]

Haas does not use Yaskawa. They use Lincoln Electric.

I think he was referring to the axis motors which Haas does use Yaskawa motors for. The spindle motors commonly have the Lincoln Electric.

[haastec]

Wow, and I got called a haas basher for suggesting a better way to order parts...

Trouble maker!