Invert Jog keys?

[Geof]

.....If you are always the cutter, and never the part, it becomes instinctual....

Oh yeah? You mean to claim you have never made a mistake? I don't claim to be flawless, I find it better to acknowledge my flaws and take steps to catch them.

[HayreAss]

That is probably why I do not see any difference between the mill and the gantry; the motion I see matches my finger location.

I've sat here for 10 minutes trying to sort this one out in my mind, but cant.

If you are running a gantry, and press the left hand button and the gantry moves right, how is the motion you are seeing matching your finger location?
You are seeing a thing move right even though you finger is located on the left hand button.

I sure hope you folks aren't getting a bad impression of me here either.
I like this forum and can see myself frequenting the place with questions as I journey down the path of learning this machine, and future machines if business keeps up.

I've looked back over this thread, and with the internet being what it is, I could see how things can be taken the wrong way.
It's harder to convey things when writing than it is when talking.

[HayreAss]

Oh yeah? You mean to claim you have never made a mistake? I don't claim to be flawless, I find it better to acknowledge my flaws and take steps to catch them.

Whoa, hey, what did I miss?
I am far from flawless.

My comments on having to think were not a dig at you my friend.
But a comment on this system we are forced into.

This very thread started as my attempt to acknowledge and catch my flaw.
I will never find it OK to use 2 opposing theories at the same time.

Because Haas has done this to us, you are forced to use 2 different ways of thinking.

Instinct does not get to take over, mistakes are more easily made.

I started this thread because I want to minimize my mistakes, and using 2 different theories just doesn't seem like the way to to do it.

I would like to use just one.

I would like to always be the cutter.

[neilw20]

A small amount of practice, especially using a CAD package, you will very quickly adapt.
When you reverse the car you turn the wheel the 'wrong way'.
Now if you reverse with a trailer, all of a sudden, all is reversed again.

Don't try and change your thinking. You are doing OK there.
You just need to practice a bit and learn another way of doing something in a new (CNC) environment.

We have right hand threads on the cross slide of a lathe, rotating clockwise for a negative X value. Did you have a problem learning to use a readout on a lathe?
It nicely reads diameter if you set it up to. The tailstock has a left hand thread, for a negative Z move.

As for the 0,0,0 point, it really depends on the job. A symmetrical job can work nicely from the center of the table.
If you don't like negative numbers, make your reference to the left of the table by all means, but DOWN on Z is still negative, unless you stand on your head.
At least going positive on Z is a good rule to remember that most times moves to a safe point clear of the job.

HayreAss. Are you, by any chance left handed?

You could always stand at the back of the machine if you are left handed.

[HayreAss]

Thanks Neil, good points.

Though in the car analogy you only turn the wheel the wrong way in reverse if you also turn yourself.
The car itself is going to the right in forward or reverse when you turn the wheel clockwise.

And no, I never had any trouble with the lathe, though I do not currently have the luxury of a readout.
When running a lathe, my minds eye pictures everything from the center of the Z axis, so all is well.
On a lathe everything on my side of the axis of rotation is X- and the opposite side is X+, just like Descartes intended, if we were looking from the tailstock to the spindle.

When I rotate clockwise I am getting closer to Zero, and counterclockwise is further from Zero. So I would go from -2 to -1 turning the wheel clockwise and looking from the tailstock.

Heck, I would be OK if Haas completely inverted all the Axis, as long as everything matched, everywhere.
Instead I have a standard cartesian coordinate system in the program and on the table.
But to get to those points with the keyboard I push buttons in the opposite position.
Except for Z, for that I push buttons that are near where they should be. (I think the Z and Y keys should switch positions with each other too)
And If I have a gantry $hit really doesn't make sense, because even the moving part of the machine doesn't jibe with the key positions.

I am not left handed, but I am left brained.
I often trip over my keyboard as well.

Fellas, I appreciate the discourse, but fear I am not making friends here.
I would rather make friends, than have folks think I am an A$$.

We are not going to see eye to eye on this, and that's OK.

I apologize to anyone I offended.
It was unintentional, I assure you.

[neilw20]

Turning the wheel while reversing?
My wife looks over her left shoulder, and as soon as she turns, she does a bit of left hand down!! Refuses to use the mirrors, but likes the seat position different.

I had the same problem as you with regards to being the tool or the table for a short time, initially.
Left hand end of table has a -X and the right has a +X, far side has a +Y and nearside a -Y and that's what I think if I want to get closer to an end (or edge).
My left key moves the table to the left, as it should and the right to the right, etc.

I never think of the keys as plus or minus. They just move the table.
If I want a hole to the left of where I am, I move the table to the right with the right key. I don't even think plus or minus.
My keys have ONLY arrows on them.

I will be working on a 5 axis machine soon. Interesting thoughts?
Then I will have to rotate my head, like you do using RC for an aircraft. Half the time the B axis will move the wrong way, just like if you are on the wrong side of a gantry.

[Machineit]

If you are running a gantry, and press the left hand button and the gantry moves right, how is the motion you are seeing matching your finger location?
You are seeing a thing move right even though you finger is located on the left hand button.

I sure hope you folks aren't getting a bad impression of me here either.

When you push the gantry button for left the gantry goes left not right. AGAIN, what moves matches the button.

As far as impressions, the only one I get is Stubborn as a mule.

Adapting to reality is much simpler than changing it!

Mike

[gizmo_454]

I've sat here for 10 minutes trying to sort this one out in my mind, but cant.

If you are running a gantry, and press the left hand button and the gantry moves right, how is the motion you are seeing matching your finger location?
You are seeing a thing move right even though you finger is located on the left hand button.

I am not Geof, so I may be wrong here, but what I understood by that is he is looking at the tool. When he pushes the right button on the gantry, the head carrying the tool, moves left. On the regular mills, when you push the right button, the table moves right, or, looking at the relative motion of the tool to the table, the tool is moving left. Moving left in the X axis is always negative.

I think we have beaten this horse to death. He will do one of three things:

1) learn to run the machine and find out it's not that big of a deal

2) try to modify the keypad wiring

3) get rid of the machine

In whatever you choose to do, by all means, please do not do #2 above unless you plan to change it back when you sell the machine, or take it to the scrapyard since it will mess all the rest of us up who have learned to live with it.

Good luck to you!
Mike

[HayreAss]

I agree Mike, this horse done died a while back.

You are right other Mike, I am very Stubborn!

And if I understood Geoff correctly, the gantry mills have the same layout as us, so pushing the left button moves the tool, the gantry, and the relative motion of the tool to the table all to the right.

I will do a modification of #1
Learn to run the machine the way it is, but always think it is a big deal.

[Geof]

I've sat here for 10 minutes trying to sort this one out in my mind, but cant.

If you are running a gantry, and press the left hand button and the gantry moves right, how is the motion you are seeing matching your finger location?........

I will have to trot up to the business and actually push some buttons. Right now I am working from memory and haven't run the gantry for a long time.

[cygnus x-1]

I agree Mike, this horse done died a while back.

Wait! I just saw it twitch a little. Let me take a couple whacks...


So in following this thread I haven't seen an answer to (what I think is) the root question; "What is the logic behind the layout of the jog keys?" Why is the X+ button (moves the tool right) positioned on the left side of the jog pad, and the X- button (moves the tool left) positioned on the right side of the jog pad? The only thing I can come up with is that it allows you to think of it both ways. If you want to move the tool to the right you press X+ for positive tool movement. Or if you want to think of it as moving the table to the left (also for positive X tool movement) you press the button on the left (which happens to also be X+).

On the gantry machines, I have no idea.

And then finally, am I the only one that doesn't even use the X-/Y-/Z- keys at all? To me the X+ just means "jog x" and then I use the wheel to go whichever way I want to go. No confusion about direction then.


C|

[Machineit]

And then finally, am I the only one that doesn't even use the X-/Y-/Z- keys at all? To me the X+ just means "jog x" and then I use the wheel to go whichever way I want to go. No confusion about direction then.


C|

No, you are not. Although hitting the +X moves the tool in the plus direction of the grid, the main thing is that it moves the movable part of the machine in the direction of the button. So when I hit the right button, I expect the table to move right. In fact, I can't even read my -X +X buttons, as they are worn off! But, I know exactly what will happen when I push that button.

Mike