Lost over 9 days of production time on 3 month old vf2ss

[mishikwest]

Since general criticism of Haas machines in other posts is usually deemed "counter-productive". I'll start a fresh one dedicated to just that. The NON-productivity of a brand new Haas VF2ss.

In three months of ownership:

-main coolant line plugged by wad of teflon tape
-spindle air hose ruptured due to incorrect routing
-main board replacement
-mocon control/board replacement
-spindle replacement
-spider drive replacment
-doors fell of track
-coolant pump bad

cutters run are .500 and smaller on aluminum. Machine never crashed. Power supply is very clean, as is air. I'm getting a ballbar testing (at 40imp!) of .00035 and told that "that's as good as it gets.
POS

Factory attention and repair service have been ok, at least. However that does'nt do anything for the 9 days that I've been down thus far.

Just thought I'd share that my experience, in a proper thread

...and mention "Mori Dura Center 5".

[Chris D]

Hmm. interesting.

There is a local company that just purchased some Hass machines, 2 out of 4 were "Broke" from the factory. One required a complete tool changer replacement - don't understand why it couldn't be fixed? The other had some serious electronics/parameters problems with the live tooling spindle - it took about 20 phone calls and 3 months to get that working.

It's a shame. Haas really took off big time about 10 years or so ago and apparently, they grew too fast. Now it seems as though they can't produce quality nor can they keep up with service. I was hopeful that this american company would be "different" :-(

Chris

[unterhaus]

I wonder if your first and last problems are related. I was wondering about this while cleaning up a Bridgeport today at work. The coolant return holes are a clog waiting to happen, not that many run flood coolant on a BP. Our Haas (open style mill, not machining center) has the same kind of coolant return holes, and you have to keep on top of it or they clog. I guess most machine centers have a system that can't clog?

[Kool Parts]

Now it seems as though they can't produce quality nor can they keep up with service.

Bull****.
Gary

[Geof]

It would be nice if this thread could develop into something constructive not degenerate into a did-too/did-not type of name-calling. What I suggest is that either in this thread or preferably in a specially constructed modified poll people detail their experiences. I have several Haas and have had both good and bad experiences, with the bad (not too bad really) being associated with newer machines. If Haas does have a problem with QC drifting down this could show up if enough people contribute with good identification of their machines.

I mention a specially constructed poll and for this I need to attract the attention of Paul; hey, yoo hoo site boss-man: can you set something up with a bunch of fields labelled Model, Month/Year of manufacture, Cycle Start Time, Feed Cutting Time, Comments. If the structure could be set up to automatically rank machines by month/year when enough entries have been made it will be possible to see trends just by scanning down the list.

I know someone from Haas Apps scans this site, maybe others from Haas do also. Anyway what would accummulate over time is a pool of information that could be very helpful to Haas if they decided to take note of it. The information would also be helpful to people looking for information on Haas machines.

It would be possible to include Serial # in the fields but this could be a sensitive issue. It would mean that if a particular issue arose in consecutive serial numbers the reason behind it might be possible to identify more accurately. It would also mean that Haas would be able to identify people.

[miljnor]

Thats a good Idea Geof, hope Paul goes for it. After all it is a CNC forum right? I havn't bought new in awhile but everything CNC in my shop is HAAS. I typicaly buy used but it would be a sad thing if they are letting the production QC slip. Its probably just growing pains (hopefully) or just a couple of flukes.

Even if 10% of this sight had problems with HAAS (other than non users) thats still just a small worlwide sample.

most of the problems I have had are wear issues gear reduction boxes dying, low voltage power supplies ect.. but I have some 1993 machines in hear as well, cant expect em to last forever. (unless you pay more for em! )

[mishikwest]

I mention a specially constructed poll and for this I need to attract the attention of Paul; hey, yoo hoo site boss-man: can you set something up with a bunch of fields labelled Model, Month/Year of manufacture, Cycle Start Time, Feed Cutting Time, Comments.

If I worked for Haas maybe.

I've lost enough cutting time with this machine, let alone all related bureacracy of service..and frankly I'm madder than hell (as you can probably tell). What your suggesting should be done at the factory, nice idea with good intentions. I give the factory my $$ with the "understanding" that they've done the work necessary to provide just such a machine.

Only reason I'm posting this here is to hopefully spare someone else the headaches and trouble, not to just rant and bash.

m2c

[Kool Parts]

mishikwest,

Only reason I'm posting this here is to hopefully spare someone else the headaches and trouble, not to just rant and bash.

So.. you just want to make sure no one else buys a Haas so they will be spared the time and trouble. Because Haas machines are crap...
Thanks, I better go in back and make sure the doors are still on all the machines. I havent lost 9 days since I learned how to spell CNC.
Gary

[Chris D]

Originally Posted by Kool Parts mishikwest, So.. you just want to make sure no one else buys a Haas so they will be spared the time and trouble. Because Haas machines are crap... Thanks, I better go in back and make sure the doors are still on all the machines. I havent lost 9 days since I learned how to spell CNC. Gary

No need to attack someone here, we are just sharing our experiences. Like all things in life, we each have different experiences and as such, some may be contrary to yours. If your machines perform great, well then great. No need to attack those that don't have the good fortune of getting a good machine from Haas.

Chris

[Kool Parts]

Attack?
How did I attack? I simply thanked him for letting the world know the "truth" about Haas machines.
Now if I would have called bull**** on some of what he said...maybe. But I dident do that. I'm just happy for the lesson.
Gary

[Geof]

I have thirteen Haas machines ranging from a 1995 HL-1 to a 2005 GR510. Over a period of five years I have lost maybe a total of 9 days. My HL-1 has done 1300 hours of feed cutting time; that is not power on time but actual cutting time, without any problems. My VF0 has done 2200 hours of feed cutting time; power on time is 11000 hours, and the only problem has been a spade connector vibrating loose on the air pressure switch in the tool release assembly.

About 3 or 4 of my lost days were due to a Super MiniMill I bought in 2004 which gave all sorts of grief related to the tool changer. If this had been my first Haas it would have been my last.

Obviously it is not true to say Haas machines are crap but also it is not correct to tell someone when they detail bad experiences with a Haas machine that they are talking bs.

I don't blame mishikwest for being mad; I fired off a steaming letter to Haas for less than his problems, and it got results. My suggestion further up the thread was aimed at trying to see if people were interested in collecting together enough information so it would be possible to say to Haas look you're letting something slip.

[mishikwest]

Ahh, don't mind Kool Parts, that's just a Haas' customer relations e-bot crawling the web for anyone not toeing their company line.


Well, I'd say the factory took a big downturn (quality wise) post 2001. I've seen countless older machines (pre-2000) chugging away just fine, however the horror stories of new machines seem to be exponentially growing. Sure there's more machines out there now, but it appears there are a disproportionate amount of problems...especially BASIC quality control problems. Come on, how can doors that are barely attached make it out of the factory floor? Service tech's now have van's STOCKED with machine spindles. Sure that may seem like great service, but I'd call it a band-aid to the larger problem of initial build quality.

Once again, we've also got a 1yr. old Mori Dura Center 5, that's just over $100k new, and it is astounding how much better the machine is in nearly every way, for hardly more money than a comparable red, white, and grey American paperweight (occasionally) that some of us seem a little tooooo attached to.