Newbie- tooling

[WATERJET71]

Hello,

I need help where can I buy tooling holders, for a mini mill ( 40 CAT )and cutting tools as well. I'm about to order my mini mill. But I need to know where I can get my goodies.

[behindpropeller]

Originally Posted by WATERJET71 Hello, I need help where can I buy tooling holders, for a mini mill ( 40 CAT )and cutting tools as well. I'm about to order my mini mill. But I need to know where I can get my goodies.

I did this two years ago. Our first CNC machine.

1. Do not order any weldon style toolholders.
2. I personally stuck to ER32 and ER 16.
3. I have acquired some TG100 tooling along the way which works well for bigger than .75".
4. Do not buy any extended length toolholders unless you need them.
5. I have 4 drill chucks, two 1/8-5/8 and two 0-1/4.

At this point my goal is to have my most used taps (4-40,6-32,8-32,10-32, and 1/4-20) in their own respective tool holders.

I have been buying from MariTool.com and latheinserts.com, both will give discounts for bulk orders if you ask.

Tim

[KenFoulks]

Try here for toolholders:
CAT-40 Toolholders

Try here for cutting tools:
Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on CUTTING TOOLS

[Machineit]

Personally I use a lot of ER16 and now many ER32. But, do not neglect the basic end mill holders.

You are getting a Mini, so you probably won't turn too many endmills larger than a half inch very often, but I would get several if not more 1/2 inch endmill holders. You will find yourself keeping many different sizes of 1/2 inch, like short, long and ball end. Then you will be using chamfer endmills and center drill 1/2 inch holders as well. I would get at least four 1/2 inch, more if you can.

I would also get a few 3/8, 1/4, and 3/16. For using most endmills it is better to have the standard endmill holders than collet holders. They run more true and are sturdy, and will survive the occasional crash.

I went to work for a company and was drilling holes in very complicated 1/4 inch aluminum plates. During the operation I found all of one certain size hole were too large. Upon investigation I found that out of the 5 or 6 ER16 holders they had for their mini mill, only one was still good. All of the others had cracks in the seating area. The real bad one had three and that was throwing the drill off center. ER16's are the best tool and easy to use, but if you crash them they can split out the seating area.

As mentioned earlier, get some with the standard 1/2 drill chuck on them. They are very handy for chucking up drills and reamers, plus Silver and Deming drills too. No Albrecht or self tightening as you might have to reverse one and then the tool just falls out or loosens up. I actually bought about 5 of these on eBay for only $35.00 each with free shipping. They are an exceptional buy for what they can do.

As mentioned before, avoid long extension holders unless you have a job that requires it. You will get much more chatter and you will lose height advantage. They are great for some very deep molds and some other operations, but are seldom needed for your regular parts production. Except for deep cavities, the shortest holder is the best and most ridged.

You will need a surfacing mill or face mill. No bigger than 4 inch and probably 3 inch or 2 inch diameter is better. Look for deals on eBay that include a bunch of carbide inserts. You want a positive rake not a negative rake for a better finish. Better finish and less power required for your mini. I bought my latest, a 4 inch for my VF-2 for about $200.00 I think, but it came with 100 inserts that had four sides each. A face mill is much better for surfacing a large part than using a 1/2 inch end mill will many more passes. Much cleaner too.

Get a 2 or 3 inch boring head too. You may not use it too often, but when you need it you will not be able to do without it. Although expensive is nice, cheap is just as good as you will have to walk it in for precision anyway and runout is not an issue with a boring heads. One thing to remember is that RPM is the key. When trying to adjust a boring head to a fine precision, just change the RPM. Is the bore .001" under size, just increase the RPM by about one or two hundred! Much easier and more accurate than adjusting the head.

It sounds great to get fully balanced and high quality tooling at a very high price, but unless you are pushing them at 15,000 rpm and making aircraft rotors, you just don't need them. Cutter comp and all gives you the option of adjusting for size on parts. I buy and have bought a lot of tooling on eBay, new and used, and it will work fine for you. I bought 10 high quality Techniks ER32 holders used for about $300.00 a while back. Watch for bargains and you will get them eventually.

Anyway, enjoy the Mini and have fun making parts.

Oh, one last thing, metric ER16 collets sets are great for almost everything and they are much cheaper to buy, but the one size they do not cover well is 1/8 inch. I have four metric sets that will cover almost all endmills etc, but bought four 1/8" separately to cover them. ER16 have about .040" coverage, but none are right for 1/8 inch.

Mike

[Delw]

Dont buy Imports they suck for the most part.

You can buy Kenmetal tool holders for about $5 more than a import and there balanced up to 15k. Make sure you buy name brand quality studs.

Collet holders are best, however its not always good for clearances. get a mixture of them.
I like the Tg100 best but I have a bunch of er32 collets. I am slowly changing everything over.
as far as long holders I use them up to 6" long with no real problems. I have some kenmetal ones and some importones from US shops tools. the us shop tools one Suck, they wont run in my haas at all with out major chatter on anything. my old fadal uses them but they chatter a tad ( but the spindle is worn in) the ken metals ones I have NO problems with).
Remember the most important part of that tool holder is the studs, get good/quality ones.

I think the biggest problem with machines is that most people get a machine and sink alot of money into it, then we try to save when it comes to tooling, thats were we all go wrong. quality machines need quality tooling.


Endmills
wouldnt wipe my ass with anything from enco, Sorry ken but that stuff is pure 100% junk.

Buy good endmills they will last longer , give you a better finish, and hold size better and cost you less in the long run.

Garr is a very good brand
harvey tools is a very good brand.

if you like using 1 flute of a 2-4 fluted cutter, Enco/ China.imports is the way to go


Delw

[behindpropeller]

I suggest buying pull studs from TJ Davies. If you buy 25 at once they are very economical with excellent quality.

Retention Knobs - T J Davies Company

PS- The last toolholder I bought from maritool said made in USA on it, FYI.

Tim

[underthetire]

I know our local tooling guy beats any catalog price for quality US made/swiss made holders. I would talk to local reps before you buy from an on line store. There is a lot of mark up in this stuff, and the local guy wants your business.

[WATERJET71]

Originally Posted by underthetire I know our local tooling guy beats any catalog price for quality US made/swiss made holders. I would talk to local reps before you buy from an on line store. There is a lot of mark up in this stuff, and the local guy wants your business.

Ok so wo do I need to talk or what do you mean by Local guy???

[underthetire]

There are local tool sales companies that sell to machine shops. Since i don't know where you are, or probably even people in your area, I can't give one answer. We buy from Coast tool and Western Tool ourselves usually. Coast gives me the best prices and service.

Edit-never mind, your in my area! PM me and I can give you a name and number. The guy is great.

[behindpropeller]

Originally Posted by underthetire There are local tool sales companies that sell to machine shops.

That is a tough one if you are not a "real" machine shop.

My example:

1. I work a real job.
2. I do prototypes for that job when I need to find a fit or something. I do have an SLA printer but that is not always the best.
3. Most guys are not interested in selling one or two toolholders.

What I want...

1. I want the price up front.
2. Online ordering.
3. Quality
4. No hassle.

This is one major gripe of mine... Having to call a "distributor". Pretty often I know exactly what I need and want a price and delivery.

Tim

[underthetire]

Originally Posted by behindpropeller That is a tough one if you are not a "real" machine shop. My example: 1. I work a real job. 2. I do prototypes for that job when I need to find a fit or something. I do have an SLA printer but that is not always the best. 3. Most guys are not interested in selling one or two toolholders. What I want... 1. I want the price up front. 2. Online ordering. 3. Quality 4. No hassle. This is one major gripe of mine... Having to call a "distributor". Pretty often I know exactly what I need and want a price and delivery. Tim

Ok, so if you do order the wrong tool, you have to ship it back and wait. With local reps, it's just a phone call and he makes it good. BTW, my guy sells the same US made holders as MSC, but almost half the price. I like web ordering for a lot of stuff, but it is nice to have a guy come in, sit down with you, and recommend a start up package, especially if your new to the industry.

[Delw]

Originally Posted by underthetire Ok, so if you do order the wrong tool, you have to ship it back and wait. With local reps, it's just a phone call and he makes it good. BTW, my guy sells the same US made holders as MSC, but almost half the price. I like web ordering for a lot of stuff, but it is nice to have a guy come in, sit down with you, and recommend a start up package, especially if your new to the industry.

I like the local guys, only been using one for upteen years for mill tooling and the other for lathe tooling.
I dont like to order online but sometimes i have too.
One thing I dont like from the local guys is them stoping by, I dont have time to dick with people and I hate salesmen in my shop and most dont know there butts from a hole in the ground (both companies I use dont bother me and are very smart). and they deliver too which is cool, as long as I call by 11:00 am it gets delivered the same day.

Besides everything else in this state has to be ordered NO one carried crap anymore. so if its something I need that my tooling suppliers dont have I order it.

Delw