CUSTOMER SERVICE

[ctyler888]

Hi everyone I am new here. I work in the St. Louis area. How is the customer service for Haas in your area? We have all Okuma's in our shop now and have always had fantastic customer service with our local providers for Okuma. We recently purchased a company out of Ohio and inherited a new Haas VM3 with a 5 axis trunion. Dealling with the local Haas techs has been a terrible experience. It took a week and a half for them to come do the install. I then expected to get a small overview of the controller seems it is new to all of us and was told they don't do that and I would have to set that up seperate and they would probably have to fly someone in. Does the cutomer service get better or is this what we can come to expect from this company?

[axis]

i would trade it in and by a new okuma. if you think the service is bad wait till you start comparing the haas to your okuma. i love my haas dont get me wrong but if i could afford a okuma.....

[Delw]

I dont know why you guys back east have lousy customer service. out in the south west its great. All my major problems have been fixed in hours not days.( theres only been 2 a spindle and a mocon board) any questions I have get answered with in minutes. Not to mention the training avail for my employees.
the only problem I have is I have a leak in the *^%*$*$ machine, from day one , they sent a not so bright guy out to fix it and its leaked worse every since, its been 1 year aince it was attempted to be fixed last time( machine is 2 years old).
I dont bother them about it even though I should as it was a brand new machine, but to me its not a big deal.


I am going to have my 10 year old fix it, she fixed the Fadal last week, damn thing was leaking like a garden hose for 3 years. , It was down for a bit waiting on a job so I told her theres the tool box fix it. haha She did, silicon looks a tad sloppy ( just as good as the haas tech did on the haas) but it doesnt leak a drop. She thrilled.
And yes she even figured out how to take the doors off the fadal to take the front stainless steel panel off.
she is going to tackle the Haas next

The only gripe I have about the haas machine itself is it wont cut aluminum worth a crap unless I use special alum cutters, then the finish is 32 or better, but with a standard 2 flute carbide cutted it cuts like crap with tons of chatter, HAAS says its the cutters, I say something is not right. My fadal I can use any cutter and get a perfect finish everytime.
I have had the haas for 2 years, been thinking about another new one, but I dont think it will be the haas, not due to the customer service cause its better than any machine seller out there in arizona, but mainly due to the alum cutting prolems(chatter) I am having and HAAS themselves saying its not the machine blaming it on everything but the real problem, I am cutting to fast, wrong tool holders, wrong tooling, wrong feeds and speeds wrong coolant and the list goes on.or the classic, some dumbass tech in his office telling me I dont know how to program ( same speeds and feeds as the fadal.) thats my only gripe with haas.
but with a special alum cutters the haas damn good, holds a tight tolorance and is faster than ****.

Delw

[gizmo_454]

The service is all dependent on the tech that comes out, and how knowledgeable he is. We have had several different techs out here from Gerotech, (our "local" HFO). Only one of them has been knowledgeable about the machine he was working on and actually had common sense.

The training I got here for our mill was a basic programming class and an advanced programming class held at Gerotech, an hour and a half from here. Both were one day courses and were decent for the beginner. Their operator class was a half day, again at Gerotech, and covered basic operation of the machine and finding your way through the control.

What else could you ask for considering the money you are paying for the machine? Sure, there are companies out there that have a week or two of in house training, hands on. But you are probably looking at spending close to, if not more than double for that machine. I know...The swiss machines we were looking at new were in the vicinity of $250K-$300K. They all came with at least 1 week worth of in house training and would schedule more occasionally free of charge, if they were in the area and had some free time. Our SL-10 with barfeeder was less than $80K.

Bottom line...YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

Mike

[axis]

you cant take feeds and speeds off of one machine and just put it in another.every machine is different the speeds i can run on a haas i could dubble on the okuma. you may know how to write g code but it sounds like you arnt adapting to the machine that you are cutting on. i can run at 7500 rpm at 35ipm on my tm1 and get an ok finish but i can run at 7500rpm at 50imp and get a perfict finish on my vf2ss with the same cutter. and thats with single flute or 2 flute or long reach etc. mabey it is the machine have you checked the pullstub tention the haas tec should have a tool to check the tention if it is weak you will get a teribel finish. just a thought

[Delw]

Originally Posted by axis you cant take feeds and speeds off of one machine and just put it in another.every machine is different the speeds i can run on a haas i could dubble on the okuma. you may know how to write g code but it sounds like you arnt adapting to the machine that you are cutting on. i can run at 7500 rpm at 35ipm on my tm1 and get an ok finish but i can run at 7500rpm at 50imp and get a perfict finish on my vf2ss with the same cutter. and thats with single flute or 2 flute or long reach etc. mabey it is the machine have you checked the pullstub tention the haas tec should have a tool to check the tention if it is weak you will get a teribel finish. just a thought

It was really bad till they replaced the spindle, still wont give me a good finish(unless I use made for alum cutters. I know other vf2ss that will give a nice finish at the same speeds with the same tools as mine giving me a crappy finish.

with a alum cutting endmill Gar 3/8's 3 flute I can run 100ipm(faster if I want to) at 12k rpm cleaning up the side of a sawed off blank 1/2 thick and get a mirror finish. with a 2 or 4 flute standard endmill I have to go down to 4500 rpms to get the chatter out. and maybe 15-20 ipm. Geoff has seen the pics there UGLY.

a 1/8 cutter will not take a .005 side cut at 8500-12000 rpms at any feed rate with out chatter or a alum cutting endmill(harvey tool). thats when they replaced the spindle.
a 1.500 long (D.O.C.) 1/2 endmill solid carbide 2 or 3 or 4 flute will not cut without alot of chatter unless I am below 2500 rpms, it doesnt make any difference if its a .005 side cut or a .200 side cut
if I go to a different holder it gets way worse. I have to use kenmetal holders and retention knobs. Trust me I tried every holder there is.( i have all of them running on my fadalnow ) I have played with almost everytype of endmill know to man ( well stuff thats avail). best endmills are only alum cutting endmills made by Garr and harvey tool.

The techs checked everything and tell me the same thing I dont know what I am doing, so does the haas factory the few times I have called, I pretty much gave up on them. its just one of those irritating problems that will keep me from buying another vfss series haas shot on the next one. the only thing that wasnt really checked was the "X" table/ball screw guides etc etc and since most of my problem is when feeding in the "Y" axis I would assume the x would be a problem. I cant remember if they did a ball bar test or not. but the back lash was 0 when they check it.


Problem is I been doing this for 25+ years so I think I know a little something about machines , programming and feeds and speeds.
alloy steel/Stainless etc cuts great but then I am running at rpm speeds less than 3000 rpms.

Ive run/owned machines with both linier(sp) guildes and boxed ways and I never seen this happen. Hell even the acrolocs didnt have this bad of a problem and there spindles had .002-.005 slop in them.
It has to be the high speedany thing over 5000-7000 rpms and my machine

no problems when I run tool steel endmills ( but I only ran them for testing and dont run them on jobs) however thats because tool steel you can put a load on it IE slightly bend the endmill so it doesnt bounce like carbide does.

heres the first post with some pics.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/631556-post23.html

the chatter isnt as bad as this, still using KM holders in both collets and endmill holders and YES I did make sure the pull studs are at the correct tourqe, free of burrs, and clean when I put them on.

Seriously I would love to get this machine figured out, cause I like the vfss machines and when I am ready to purchase another one , it will be the 40x20yt with a pallet changer,if the problem gets corrected . the control makes it easy to use for anyone even those who have little to no experiance. The only thing I didnt like about the problem was HAAS and the HFO say its this or that when I know for a fact it isnt, as well as one haas tech knows something is not right.

the bottom line is unless I use endmills made for alum my finish sucks, and I dont mind using endmills made for ALum while they cost 2-3 times more they last 5-6 times longer,unless you need an endmill you dont have in stock and you have to wait till it arrives its all good, but that still doesnt fix the problem.

Delw

[axis]

no didt say the pull stud tourqe at the tool holder is wrong. i sead the pull stud tenstion holder in the spindle its somthing not alot of people check it. i am in know way saying that you dont know how to program feeds and speeds but if you have a vf2ss use the 12000 rpm do more passes less material faster speeds if that dosnt solve the problem then i dont know . i usally get that finish if i am cuting sheets on my router and i dont hold the material well enuff.or i am not cutting fast enuff for the cutter. or the tool is to far out of the collet. the garr alumu cutters are the way to go i held off for some time before i tried one and now i dont want to go back they are awsome and the speeds are just crazy. that was running in constant step over pocketing and i doubled that speed when i got new software if you have the ss machine you should check it out imaching from solidcam. YouTube - iMachining w SolidCAM

[Delw]

Originally Posted by axis no didt say the pull stud tourqe at the tool holder is wrong. i sead the pull stud tenstion holder in the spindle its somthing not alot of people check it. i am in know way saying that you dont know how to program feeds and speeds but if you have a vf2ss use the 12000 rpm do more passes less material faster speeds if that dosnt solve the problem then i dont know . i usally get that finish if i am cuting sheets on my router and i dont hold the material well enuff.or i am not cutting fast enuff for the cutter. or the tool is to far out of the collet. the garr alumu cutters are the way to go i held off for some time before i tried one and now i dont want to go back they are awsome and the speeds are just crazy. that was running in constant step over pocketing and i doubled that speed when i got new software if you have the ss machine you should check it out imaching from solidcam. YouTube - iMachining w SolidCAM

Axis
I through that one in there cause thats always the next question asked.
they did a draw bar test on the old and new spindle, we even thought that it could be that the tol. was tight in the taper of the spindle and just needed to be worn in so to speak with a few months of tool changes. but 2 seperate spindles thats not likely,( ie the org. one and the replacement one)

I think your missing the point. my fadal has no problems at any speed to 10 k rpms, the hass cant take half the cut or even a .025 cut on alum at any speed higher then 5000 with out chatter unless I use a alum cutting endmill.
and a long endmill forget it rpms need to be below 2500 ( anything over a standard cut length.)


As far as speed with the vf2ss, with those alum cutters from Garr I can rip material fast and extreamly heavy with NO chatter.
this is just a little annoying problem I have with this machine, other than that the machine kicks ass and I am extreamly happy with it.


Ive seen the video thats why I bought one of those 5 flute cutters and they do kick ass, and no chatter either BTW it was one of the endmills I tried.