Help with HAAS VF

[num1bryanp]

Hello everyone,

Hope you had a good New Years!

My dad and I have a simple back yard shop with a conventional lathe and mill, and have wanted to learn and do some CNC. My dad is the machinist and I am an ex-programmer. I have the knowledge to derive the NC file for a CNC machine, and my dad has the skills. Now we just need the machine.

We have been looking at a HAAS VF mill with plastic sides on it. I think it is a VF-2 because it has a 30” table. (See attached pictures)

Mill information on the rear tag
Model: VF Serial number: 1878 Date: 12-92

This one has been run hard with little maintenance, the right way cover is broken along with the Z cover.
It looks like it has been used as a roughing machine for cast iron.

The owner said everything seemed to be working before it was moved to its current location.

We powered it up with no coolant, (the coolant system is outside on a pallet) and the owner could not get the spindle to function. All 3 axis seem to move okay, who knows what shape the ball screws are in.

We were able to have the machine change tools, but the manual tool release button on the spindle housing is not working.

Questions:

Could the spindle problem be because of no coolant? If so, is there a way to bypass the coolant sensor for testing of the spindle?

What is the procedure to determine the backlash or wear of the ball screws on a HAAS CNC?

Is there a test /procedure to determine repeatability / accuracy of the machine?

How much memory does this controller have?

Will it support DNC (drip feed)?

Does this controller support a 4th axis? How do I determine this?

What am I forgetting?

Approximately what should I be paying for a machine in this condition?

Thanks for your help!
Bryan

[GaryCorlew]

If it has been roughing cast iron without the way covers, the ballscrew and linear rails are most likely history. Cast iron is very abrasive. As far as the spindle goes to be best of my knowledge it should run without the coolant hooked up, were there any errors on the screen when he tried to run it? how was he trying to run it? was he typing it in or just hitting the cw, ccw button? can the spindle be turned by hand? This machine will take a lot of money to fix! even if the spindle is ok

[Donkey Hotey]

Run.

Far.

Fast.

That's the solid advice. If the machine were offered to me, I might pay $1000-2000 for it (that's a generous offer and I'd probably need to be drunk to actually pay it). It's going to probably need thousands in just parts to make it usable. That's assuming you did 99% of the labor yourself. Add in the rigging costs and the owner will be lucky to find someone to haul it away.

As already posted, the ballscrews and guides are probably thrashed. Cast iron might as well be beach sand. I don't know what they cost new but, I'd assume they're all junk. Ditto for the way covers. They're never going to seal if the surfaces are all pitted and ground up.

We could armchair quarterback all of your other questions but, that's irrelevant. I doubt the owner will sell it that cheap. If you want a major restoration project and don't mind sinking $5-10K in parts into it, it might be worth it. I value my time more than that. There are nicer Haas machines out there for $10-12K that are still relatively clean inside and they work.

[cheetahcnc]

12 cents per pound. If it can't make you a part before you get it, can it make you money after you got it?

Jim

[Machineit]

That machine is not worth anything except for parting out. It is not worth restoring. I can see the 4th axis amplifier in the picture, but don't know if it is turned on.

Prices are still pretty low for used machines right now, but they are increasing. I bought a fully functional 96 VF-2 about one year ago for $12,000. I have had several VFs over the years and know them pretty well. If you don't know them I would not buy any machine that is not FULLY FUNCTIONAL. Parts are fairly reasonable, but the Haas tech coming to your location is not.

Keep looking.

Mike

[num1bryanp]

Hello again,

My dad found out some good news. The machine worked cast iron early in its life when the way covers were still working, and then were broken at the end while working steal. He also found out the previous owner of the machine had changed some cables and boards in the machine so some maintenance has been done.

I see most of you are recommending that we should move on to another machine, and yet I am guessing you don’t live in Idaho. We do not seem to have as many older machines to look at around here and what there is they tend to be proud of price wise.

HP laid me off a few year back and my dad is retired so we have time to work on a machine if all it need is TLC.

We are going to revisit the machine when the owner has time, so anything else you can have me look for would be greatly appreciated. :-)

Thank you for your time and knowledge,
Bryan
Nampa, ID

[Donkey Hotey]

Shipping is waaayyyy cheaper than repairs. Price the way covers without anything else and you'll see what we mean.

Either of these will be cheaper in the long run. I'd guess $3-4K for shipping (we had a similar sized machine shipped from southern California to central Missouri for $3500, including loading/unloading).

1994 Haas VF2 CNC Vertical Machining Center Gear Box - eBay (item 250742835211 end time Jan-13-11 08:12:18 PST)
Haas VF1 Vertical Machining Center VMC 10 H.P. - eBay (item 230566174342 end time Jan-21-11 11:37:39 PST)

[behindpropeller]

1990 Haas VF-1 Vertical Machining Center 4 - Axis 7500 rpm

I would buy a machine that is fully tooled also....

[haastec]

If you are buying this machine due to tight funds, keep in mind that many of the electronics for this machine are obsolete. One part may go out but the repairs may require you to purchase 2 or 3 other items just to be compatable with each other and most likely you will need a tech to install them just to make sure you have it setup correctly.

If you are set on getting this machine, it may be worth a few labor hours to have a tech come in and look at it for you. He will be able to give you a better idea of the overall condition as well as what it may cost to get it to be reliable. Look into some independant techs in your area if there are any; may have to ask around.

This machine will cost you $$$ guaranteed!

Probably not what you were hoping to hear, but good luck whichever way you choose.

[lkenney]

Where in Idaho are you? There are used and new machine dealers in several locations. I am runing a old machine than the one you are looking at #1749 in fact. It is a VF-0 but not beat nearly as bad as yours. The advise you ar getting here is sound. These are not PCs you can't order parts from many places and I have found that as high as the travel time is if I have a problem that I am not sure about it pays to have a tech come in. I am at least 2 hours each way from support. I also used to fix and support computers before I returned to what I enjoy most and that is making things, but you can't make things if your machine is not running and running well. You can't fudge on the cut (well directly) like you can a beater Knee Mill. That machine must do what you tell it to exactly or you will never get useable parts out. If they will give you the machine, you can learn from it but you will sink $10,000 into it in order to make usable parts. Loading and unloading the machine to move it a block eats up a major part of having a machine shipped in. The coolant does not have anything to do with the spindle not running. I run mine a lot with the coolant off when cutting certain steels with new end mills. You can find my history by searching this and other blogs. If you don't buy it, I bet they junk it.

Good Luck
Lowell

[ToyMaker94566]

HAHA, a customer of mine bought one just like that a couple years ago. He wanted something in house to do quick modifications and not have to wait for shop time to open up. I suggested not buying that old thing but he bought it anyway. He said it was in good shape and still on a shop floor making parts so he knew it was in working order. He still uses it today a little bit but was shocked to find out that tooling the thing up cost him more than he paid for the mill itself after tool holders, cutters, drills, vices and a cheap CAM system (which he never learned to work ). But if you are looking for some numbers to compare to, he paid 6k for his mill.

Good Luck!

[lkenney]

Toymaker states a fact that is often overlooked, it will cost between $5K and $10K to tool the mill up to be useful. Vises, tool holders mearuring tooling, etc. not to mention expendables, drills, endmills, face mills, phase converer !!!!!

A friend just bought and installed a '96 VF-2 that is in a lot better shape than the one you show. He paid $12K for it and it was on the floor making parts. We moved it in set it up, I thought he had made a really good buy and he did. Selway came out to make sure it was setup correctly and to check a couple of small things. We found the Z axis motor was faulty and would not repeat positions, Long story short, it cost another $6,000.00 to get the VF-2 up and running in spec. If you are not running in spec then why make parts?

Take the serial number and call Haas and they can give you the history od the machine.

Lowell