Looking to buy a Haas...Opinions?

[super95awd]

Hey guys, I've been shopping around for a CNC mill to add to my shop arsenal for a little while and have come to the decision that I would like to buy a Haas. I will most likely be purchasing new and was considering a few different machines.

The machines I was considering were the TM-1P, MiniMill 2, and the VF1 (this being at the very top of the budget). For now I will be doing some short run production and prototyping, but would like to get into bigger stuff later on. I would love to spring for the VF1, but would have to be very very convinced before that happened.

The main difference I'm seeing between the TM series and the MiniMills is the spindle lubrication, the TM's being grease packed and the MM's being oil mist. Is that going to make THAT much of a difference in the long run?

The options I am looking at are rigid tapping for sure (the VF1 comes with this), high speed machining, Renishaw probe (could probably deal with a 3D taster for $5k ), and possibly a chip auger.

Just give me you honest opinions guys!

[behindpropeller]

Depends how big your parts are that you want to make.

I like our TM-2 and the work area it provides. 95% of the stuff I do on our TM2 is aluminum or plastic.

If you are doing less than 25 parts the TM series makes sense to me. You can always buy bigger and faster later.

[gizmo_454]

First off, going from a TM-1P to a VF-1 is kind of an apples to oranges thing. the TM-1P has far less HP and RPM than the VF-1. That is a big thing. Especially if you want to migrate to larger parts in the future.

Second, if you look at the difference between the VF-1 and the Mini Mill 2, and add everything to the MM2 to bring it up to VF-1 standard options, the prices are basically the same. The VF-1 is built on a cast iron base which is far more rigid than the weldment base of the MM2. In my mind, the VF-1 is a far better machine than the MM2.

Third, I am not sure what kind of work your shop does, but consider at least a 4th axis. I was told the same thing when we bought our Mini Mill. Fortunately, I listened. It has opened doors to many parts we never would have been able to run without it.

Finally, it is really going to be about your preferences and budget will allow. Yes, you can always buy a bigger, better machine later. If you would have spent the extra $10-15K in the first place, there wouldn't be the need to spend another $50k+ for another machine because you under estimated on the first one. I wish everyday that we would have spent the extra $10K for the Super Mini Mill. But at the time, I didn't know. Now it's not $10K, now it's $60K+ because you can't upgrade to the Super after it leaves the factory.

Good luck with your decision.

Regards,
Mike

[super95awd]

Well I talked to my HFO today, specifically Greg Racicot, which happens to be a great guy, very helpful. He's going to get some quotes out to me on a few machines and I guess that will help me along with my decision. He made a lot of good points.

I know where you're coming from on the VF1/TM comparison. I would love to step into a VF of some sort, but we'll have to see where the pricing falls.

[alexjc98]

I've got a friend with a five year old TM1, the old style with no guards. He has thousands of spindle hours on almost all Nylon, so spindle speed maxed at 4,000 most of the time with no spindle problems yet. Not sure of the lubrication method on that old machine, maybe your dealer can give you some idea on that issue. I help him with program and setup and it is identical in that respect to the VF series. If your work fits in the travel of the smaller machine and you don't need heavy milling or high speed then do not discount the TM. I would love to have one in my garage, but it would not be a good choice for daily production in our shop do to the limited work envelope.

John

[bodysnatcher]

hEY BUD

i have been running haas for 3 years now...TL-1, sl-10 and 20 lathes, (2) vf-1 and a vf-2 super speed...I argue all the time with the mori owners, mazak owners blah blah....Simply put, haas is standardized, has capabilities that all others dont like g47 text, g12-g13 pocket milling, g141 3d profiling....

I like them all. of course a vf-1 would be nice, but between the tm-1/2 or the vf-1 is also a vf-oe. whatever you get...you'll be happy....

[locash]

Are the TM's enclosed? I wouldnt even consider a non-enclosed machine, unless you want to clean up even more chips. With that being said, I bought a VF2 after looking at Minimills and Super Minimills years ago, and aside from not ordering the 10000 rpm spindle, I am really happy with the VF2 and am glad I didnt buy something with less travel.. I wish I had more Y and Z travel now, but a VF4 is not in the plans.

[locash]

My mistake, the TM's are enclosed.

[dingo0722]

If this is your first machine I would highly recommend that you buy a used machine and go for the VF series of family. We run VF-2 here, is a real nice machine with a work envelope that can make allot of parts.

You should be able to find a nice VF-2 with options like auger and 10K spindle with low hours on it for cheaper than buying a new TM1/2.

Just my thoughts, but I would definitely go used

[cheetahcnc]

Originally Posted by locash Are the TM's enclosed? I wouldnt even consider a non-enclosed machine, unless you want to clean up even more chips. With that being said, I bought a VF2 after looking at Minimills and Super Minimills years ago, and aside from not ordering the 10000 rpm spindle, I am really happy with the VF2 and am glad I didnt buy something with less travel.. I wish I had more Y and Z travel now, but a VF4 is not in the plans.

The TM-1P and the TM-3P are enclosed. The "P" is for the enclosure. They also come with a higher RPM spindle and tool changer. Real nice units, I would go with the enclosure type for sure.

Jim

[super95awd]

I have been eyeing up a couple used VF2's. Funny that you said that. I will probably either be going with one of those or a new TM-1P.

[dingo0722]

Its a great all around machine. You can’t go wrong. You just don’t want to grow out of a smaller machine like a TM. Little things like wanting to use a 3 inch indexable face mill will give you poor performance on a lighter less powerful machine. The VF2 will be able to cut H13 tool steel at 0.02DOC and 3"WOC with no problem, and still have power in reserve, while giving you a nice surface finish. A lesser machine might not be able to cut that deep, or wide or it might give you a lot of chatter marks on the part eliminating the benefits of the face mill.