Need help about MOCON Board of MIKRON Turning Center

[tayfunk]

Dear sirs,
We have a turning center machine marked MIKRON.
The machine has MOCON (Motor control board). I had a problem, The problem was coolant pump not work. We solved the problem. But after assembled the board on machine, during to go zero points, It is beginning to give 103, 105, 106 messages. The messages are X,Z,A servo error too large.
Y axis is not using. There is no problem on servos. Depend on user manual explanation of the error is "Too much load or speed on axis motors. The difference between the motor positions and the commended position has exceeded a parameter"
In my opinion there is a parameter problem. But I don't know How I can load the parameters on MOCON board. Can anyone help me about the problem.
With my best regards.
Tayfun Kusluoglu

[ntcnc]

you may have better luck in the general machine section.

[Haas__man]

Actually this is probably the correct forum - Mikron did sell Haas machines for a number of years but they had all HAAS decals removed and had MICRON decals instead.
If you open the electrical cabinet -
Look about half way down on the left hand side for 3 or 4 SERVO AMPLIFIERS.
You will see a cable conecting the servo amplifiers - the cable is yellow black and white. With power on, check DC VOLTAGE between the top pin and the bottom pin. You should have over 24Volts. If you have less than 24 volts then you have a problem with the low voltage power supply.
If you have more than 24volts - then turn off the machine. Then unplug the cable from all amplifiers - then plug back in. If This fixes your problem then you should replace the cable.

Hope this helps

[tayfunk]

Dear Haas Man,
Thank you for your kind reply and your help.
I haven't checked the voltage before, because of fault lamb. In my opinion If there was any problem of the mentioned voltage the fault lamp would be blinking. There is no fault signal on Servo Drives. For this reason I wasn't awaken. However tomarrow I will go to factory and check the voltage again.
Yesterday I found other defected Ic on MACON Board. The Ic is U51 and named 74HCT259. I have noticed that The Ic is attached to COOLANT PUMP. I have changed the Ic and I will test the machine tomarrow. I will inform you about conclusions.
By the way, I am giving complete informations about 102, 103 error reports below.
102 Servos off "Indicates that the servo motors bare off, the tool changer is disabled, the COOLANT PUMP is off, and the spindle motor is stopped. Caused by EMERGENCY STOP, motor faults, tool changer problems, or power fail"
103 X,Z,A axis Servo error too large " Too much load or speed on axis motors, The difference between the motor position and the commanded position has exceeded a parameter. The motor may also be stalled, disconnected, or driver failed. The servos will be turned off and RESET must be done restart. This alarm can be caused by problems with the driver,motor, or the slide being run in to mechanical stops"
By the way, I couldn't annotate the "The difference between the motor position and the commanded position has exceeded a parameter." Can you explain me meaning of the sentence?
By the way I had lived another bad problem between MOCON Board and Haas Vector drive 40/50 Hp. Because of defected MOCON board, the COOLANT Pump was not working. We had found out that the U50 ULN2003 was defective. We changed it and asemmbled the board on the machine. When we turned on the EMERGENCY BUTTON Vector Drive REGEN driver was burnout. We repaired the circuit and assemled again the module, that time output Tranzistor module and attached circuit burned out. We had noticed that MOCON Board spindle drive control circuit was defected. P33 output port pins had been going to H level. I had found that the Ic U65 AD823 defective. I changed and P33 levels were corrected to 0 Volt level. We assembled MOCON board to machine again. Sake for Got Spindle drive were not burning out. But mentioned axis errors occured.
All my forum friends, please be careful while playing the machine, otherwise you have big problems.
By the way, Haas vector drive 40-50 Hp module output circuits different from Haas vector drive 15-20 Hp. I will issued the circuit schema in our site soon.
Thank you in advance,
Best regards,
Tayfun Kusluoglu

[DaOne]

tayfunk,

It looks like you have knowledge of the electronics on the component level. I am getting the same error (103, 105, 106 messages) you are after repairing my motif board for a 95 brushed machine. I had a friend hook of A axis and swapped the low voltage (P1) with the servo control wires (P3). I went ahead and replaced every chip on the board. The main chips that took the hit were IC3 - CD7HCT32E and IC5, IC5 - CP82C54. When the board went the control would power on with nothing but orange bars on the screen. I have now got everything but the servo drives working. I got what I think is a working pinout of the brushed servo boards. I am going to check the signaling outputs with a scope today and see it the problem is still in the motif board or if if it took out the isolators in the drive cards as well. From what I can tell the signals should be a forward/ reverse, pwm, and over current sense input. If its still in the motif I think I am out of luck as I have replaced every single IC on the board that isn't labeled PAL with a number. They appear as custom programmed ICs. Anyone have an idea where I could get a new set? I see Haas Apps talks about the low voltage supply. I would be interested to know what mine should read. Here are my drives pinouts that I have traced. I havent tested for sure but this should be what the are. Hope this information helps and maybe you or someone else might be of help to this issue.

Top down (P3) Servo Board

1(Blue) PWM
2(White) Direction F/R?
3(Brown) Direction F/R?
4(Red) + 5 Volt
5(Black) Over Current Protection Alarm (pulled low to suppress alarm)
6(Green) Circuit Ground

[Wizzard of H]

Please everybody be careful. I am seeing some contradictory information below.

There is very likely a misunderstanding here about the difference between brush and brushless machines. If there is a MOCON board, it is a brushless machine and the voltage at the amplifier is 320 to 340 volts. If there is just a MOTIF board, it is a brush machine and the voltage at the amplifier is 160 to 170 volts.

The signals listed below (including PWM) are for a brush motor machine. The brushless amplifiers are completely different things.

If chips are damaged on a board, it is unlikely you will find the cause or the damaged part. Overvoltage from a mis-applied connector will damage ALL of the chips on a board at the same time. Haas dealers can get you these boards a lot easier and that comes with the knowledge and warranty. Also overvoltage on these boards might damage every encoder plugged into them.

Supply voltages to all cards is +5, +12, and sometimes -12.

If something was disassembled and then put back together with lots of alarms, not enough care was taken in the work. If a lathe starts saying the Y axis is not working, it's because parameters have been "mangled" and the live tooling (Y axis) has been mistakenly turned on.

[DaOne]

I know there is a big difference. I know the error code basically means the axis isn't moving the same as it was commanded. On my end where the cable was plugged in should not have had any back power. It was plugged into what is a bridge rectifier for the low voltage AC. I believe that it pulled too many mA on the outputs of the gate ICs. This caused them to internally short. This then moved right down the line on the driver circuit. The low voltage AC (not the 160 volt dc) was hooked to the input of the servo drive. This input is fully optically isolated. This means that damage would be confined to the opto- isolators. Is there any way to test the encoders without being able to drive the axis? I know that the IO board, CPU board, video board, 160 volt power supply is still good. I don't really want to go replacing boards just to track down the issue. This gets very expensive. If anyone has a schematic, pinouts, any info at all that would sure help. On the alarms side. I get Servos off and Rotary CRC error at start. I have got those 2 errors since I purchased the machine. Servos off I understand. Not sure if Rotary CRC error is normal or not. All error are cleared and if I attempt to zero any axis I get the (103, 105, 106 messages). I am getting the 160 volts to the servo cards.

[Wizzard of H]

I think I understand know that you are working on a brush motor machine amplifier. Low volatge AC is suplied to the card and is rectified and regulated to run the 4 transistors there.

However, you also said you replaced an 82C54 IC. That is only used on the MOTIF card above the amplifiers. There is not anything reasonable that would cause a failure of that part unless all logic got a damagaing voltage spike.

On encoders, any time servos are off (like at E-stop), the position displays show the actual axis position as indicated by the encoder. If you turn the motor, the displays should change.

[DaOne]

Wizzard of H,

Yes, I am working on a brushed system. I haven't been able to do any more testing since we had a major power outage due to wet snow in the area. When talking the Haas on the phone I was told that the position numbers on screen would not change if i turned the motor by hand with the motor power disconnected. I will try this and report back what I find. On the 82C54 chip. The outputs were shorted to ground. I can see that this chip is used to generate the PWM signals to drive the motors. My theories are this... The logic on the motif board has a separate ground from machine chassis. I think the at there may have been transient voltages between the 2 planes that caused the meltdown of the chips. What I really feel happened however is that the +5 volts that is also on the h-bridge/pwm/overcurrent wire was shorted to the gates. This is what fried them. It could have also been caused by drawing too many mA on the gates causing them to fail. Today since power has been restored I will do more testing.

[DaOne]

Just a quick update to my problems...

The motif board was indeed fixed and working. Signals were correct...

The remaining issues of why it wasn't driving the cards was due to burn out opto-isolators on the cards. All of them were fried due to 160 volts from the DC bus being passed on an unused wire on the "low voltage" cable. This 160 volts went into the motif board on that pin and fried everything in the chain connected to that chip. This included the back feed into all the other drive cards. To make a long story short I replace the isolators and a couple toasted resistor on the drive cards and all is well again. Sure learned allot about these machines in the process and it was a total of $86.27 for repair all four drive cards and the motif board from a 160 volt short.