Is a side mount tool changer worth 9K?

[MAP32968]

Title says it all I am planning on buying a new VF2

VF-2 base price 47,995.00

10,000-rpm Spindle, 40 Taper, 20 hp 3,995.00

Chip Auger 2,295.00

High-Speed Machining 2,295.00

Intuitive Probing, Renishaw 4,995.00

24+1 Side-Mount Tool Changer 8,895.00

I have run HAAS mills with the side mount but not the umbrella
though I have run MAZAKS with umbrella magazines they are slower but I can live with that.

What about reliability and maintenance?

money is tight and this will be my first CNC mill and I am trying to stretch my budget as much as I can

I will be doing R&D work mostly on this mill

thanks

[Geof]

It is difficult to say if the Side-Mount Changer is worth the extra 9 grand for your application; for mine it is certainly worth it. I have two VF2s with the Side-Mount and one with the umbrella and will never buy another with the umbrella. Tool changes are much faster and this is a definite plus for doing amsll parts with lots of tool changes, but less of an advantage for big parts using only a few tools. The 24+1 tool capacity is a bit of an advantage because you can have the extra tools in the machine; for us it is a good advantage because we do many small production runs that use different sets of tools so we can change over from one part to the next without having to load tools and enter offsets.

You have to juggle your priorities. Maybe it is better to spend the 9 grand on tooling right now, however, bear in mind when you do have more cash in the future you cannot retrofit the Side-Mount but you can buy more tooling any time.

[MAP32968]

I am thinking that I can buy a HAAS 210 4th axis with the money a side mount tool changer will cost

[Geof]

If I needed a fourth axis and had to choose between it and a Side-Mount changer the fourth axis would win.

[DruMor]

If you can get the options you want in a option package, it should be cheaper than ala cart. The last machine our shop bought was with VOP-D and came w/ the probe package, chip augar and the SMTC as part of the package. Check with your HFO to see what the current option packages offer.

[haastec]

The side mount tool changer is much more reliable than the umbrella style hands down. As far as speed and capacity differences are concerned, it is your call.

[cadman@teluspla]

You will want to consider what size parts are to be machined,
as well as the length of your longest tool to be used.
To ensure there will be no clearance problems with the umbrella style

[Matt@RFR]

You need to talk to your HFO about discount packages. I bought a VF-2ss with package D, which is nearly every single option available except linear scales and 5 axis. I have a HRT160, probing, TSC, macros, you name it...for $88k. With your numbers, you wouldn't get half that, with 10hp less spindle, and you're only $18k less.

[glovebox20]

If money is tight, I would rather have more tool holders, collects, Vises, deburring tools, Mic's, Calipers, Bore/theard gauges ETC. Maybe once you add your 2nd machine your could get the SMTC. Just don't skimp out on both, or you will have nothing.

But once you have a Side mount TC, I doubt you would want to go back to the Umbrella TC. I don't know how many times I leaned in to a mill with a umbrella TC and scraped my head on a End Mill that was in the TC. Clumsy me I guess. But if your going to be doing a lot of Tall parts and you don't want to change tools by hand, you really don't have a choice.

If you can find a good use machine with SMTC, you could get both and still be money ahead.

glovebox20

[underthetire]

IMO keep a HAAS what it is, a low cost entry level machine. By the time you add all those "options" that are standard on the high end stuff, you could simply buy high end.

[MAP32968]

I appreciate the advice all have given

I bought a 2009 VF-1 with 7500 rpm spindle, HRT160 4th Axis, programmable coolant, chip auger

paid 44K



more pics 2009 HAAS VF1 pictures by map32968 - Photobucket

[PinnacleMachine]

From my experience with an umbrella style TC - if you are going to be machining lots of aluminum then get the side mount. Aluminum chips are light and always manage to fly up into my umbrella style and get stuck on the tool holders.

JP