Haas VF2SSYT

[FAST LS1]

It appears our shops going to be getting a Haas VF2YT with most of the options, 30hp 12k rpm spindle, 40 tool changer, 1400ipm, HSM etc.
The problem is I think the tool room manager wanted a machine with a 2-speed gear box, but we need a machining center and this one's available to our plant.
We do a lot of die details that weight less than 50lbs once machined, plates, strippers, etc for stamping dies. My concern is we might need the 2 speed gearbox as talking to Haas this machine only has 75 ft lbs of trq at 2100rpm.
We wanted to square material on the machine, then machine it. I think his plan was to use a 6" cutter, but Haas said they wouldn't push more than a 3-3-1/2". We have a Devlieg to move material with the 6" cutter currently but it's a manual machine, and we only use it for big stuff, bolsters, die sets, etc.

I'm also interested in what options if any should we possibly buy from Haas?
I've seen some people say the Reinshaw probe is great. The manager wanted to look into the "intuitive programing" as our guys still peck our G-code from a print on the floor, at the machine. We were hoping the intuitive programming would speed that up and reduce human errors. Yea or Nay?

For our application, die details, what options would you guys reccommend to optimize our machine?

Thanks in advance.

[Geof]

A 3-1/2" facemill is really pushing it on a 12k spindle especially for machining steel. To run the spindle at its maximum torque you would be doing around 2000 SFM which is very fast for any steel and you would not be able to take much depth of cut or feed.

I think some serious head scratching is called for here and a demonstration showing whether the non-gearbox machine can do the work expected of it.

[FAST LS1]

He may have to abandon the idea of squaring material quickly on the machine. We do a lot of big pockets and circle milling as well.

Will a 12k 30hp machine be able to do that decently well in steel?

We have some old 15hp belt drive Cincinnatti machines now that push low hp 3" face cutters.

We may have to look at a geared head machine next year if we want to hog out material with a big cutter.

[Donkey Hotey]

I assume from your post that this is a specific machine that you guys have your eye on for some reason (cost, locality, dept xfer).

You've nailed exactly why I prefer the 20HP 2-speed, 10K spindle over the 12K. Ditto for the 1400 IPM rapids. The standard VF-2 is still 1000 IPM and unless you're doing a lot of long-travel rapid moves, I don't think that'll ever make a difference.

The place where the fast spindle matters is if you either do a lot of aluminum or if you're going to go with ceramics. I must admit to you that you guys sound like a natural for high-speed ceramic cutters. The key to using them is that you HAVE to keep the SFM way up there (above 800SFM). That gets tough under 10K.

Check out Greenleaf cutters. They always have some impressive demos at the trade shows. This is what I'm talking about:

YouTube - Inconel Milling With Ceramic Insert

[FAST LS1]

Thanks guys.

What about options such as the intuitive programming and Reinshaw probe?
Is the Intuitive programming giong to help us out, or would it be better to buy the probe?

[haastec]

Definitely the Renishaw system. You will not regret it one bit!!

Order it with the machine otherwise I believe the cost is about double afterwards.

[underthetire]

I think your going to find the weak spot being the construction of the machine. Haas are very light, they are good job shop lighter material machines, and very reliable. I have nothing at all against HAAS, but they do have there place. By the time you add up all the options your looking at, I think you could get an Okuma for really close money, and for probably a few bucks more get a Mori or OKK, maybe a Makino.

[Donkey Hotey]

Originally Posted by FAST LS1 Is the Intuitive programming giong to help us out, or would it be better to buy the probe?

That's not an 'or' question. If you buy the probing, you get IPS with it.

If this is a new machine, do not, do not, do not buy it without probing. That's my opinion. That's the opinion of a bunch of others on here. That's the opinion of my two co-workers who share the machines at work with me.

Do a search in this forum for Renishaw. It's been discussed and beaten to death every time somebody comes in here looking for options for a new machine.

[Matt@RFR]

I love my VF-2ss, but I really have to question the thought of buying one strictly for mold work. There are a LOT better machines out there for tough steels.

If you do get it, you're going to have to pay a lot of attention to the tooling you choose. This thing will not rough steel with big cuts, period. You are going to have to take very fast, light cuts, and your tooling will need to reflect that. (high feed indexable endmills, 5 and 6 flute endmills, etc.) The other thing that goes with light/fast is programming. If you don't have CAM then you will be doing a lot more programming just because it takes a lot more passes to accomplish the same thing a heavier machine would do in fewer passes.

In my experience, there is just no way in hell you're going to run a 6" facemill in steel for anything but finish cuts (probably .050" DOC or less), and even then I bet it will chatter.

I honestly don't think the gearbox will help in this situation. It's not so much the power that's going to bite you, it's the lack of rigidity.

[murphdog]

Same here on the probe/WIPS option. Works great, would order it again on a new machine. You definatley want to look into a high feed type cutter. So much easier on the machine.
Murphdog

[glovebox20]

If your worried about Power / Rigidity , Get the 50 taper with the 2 speed gear box. I run a VF-5 with a 40 taper and a VF-3 with a 50 and the difference is unbelievable. The 50 tapper can slot with a 1/2 end mill in steel at 2400 RPM, .313 deep with out to much trouble. The same cut with the 40 taper, I have to back off the RPM to about 1750 or so and the depth to .250" and it still chatters. I've used a 5" x 45* lead face cutter on the 50 tapper and I thought I did alright at .06" depth of cuts. It was only pulling the spindle about 30-50 percent, plenty of power left, but it was rigidity was starting to lack.

I do like the HAAS for Light work and there user friendly G&M controller, but If I had a good CAM system to use, I would like a Heavier, more reliable machine (Doosan, Hyundai Kia, etc)

My two cents

glovebox20