Vertical CNC Machine Rankings

[Pondo]

Verticals I have worked on ranked from best to 5hittiest:
Makino - Unmatched speed and unmatched accuracy (but also an unmatched price$$$$)
Mazak - solid workhorses, last forever.
Haas - best of the rest, by far the best value. I love them.
K&T Orion - old as hell, but dead on balls accurate and a ton of HP
OKK - they never heard of ergonomics and they break down a lot, but the controller is tits.
Bridgeport - I liked the Heidenhain controller, but the machine was not rigid at all and the table was ridiculously soft.
Fadal - odd controller, but I learned Gibbscam on it. The machine itself sucks big time, by far the weakest and least rigid.
Matsuura - solid, but slow and constantly broke down.
Sharnoa - Slow, weak, chattery machine with a focked up controller that used it's own G-codes (Non ISO), sucked majorly. Kind of unfair because it was a mid 1970's machine, but it did suck righteously.
Daewoo - Diamond Series? More like Cubic Zirconium series. This POS cost much more than a Haas and was down more than it was running. Which wasn't a bad thing considering it didn't repeat worth a pinch of 5hit in Y and made a ton of scrap when it did run. I actually felt bad for the poor chump that bought it from us even though we lost our ass on it.

Questions? Comments? Complaints?
Add your own list.

[l u k e]

Hurco w/Max control 2001 and newer??

[TheBigJW]

Just getting a. Brand new mori duravertical with DDRT fourth. Some other shops are saying I am making a mistake because of the OMi control. We don't do a lot of 3D work but I am worried. What will I be giving up not to have the 18 or 31 control?

John

[extanker59]

Can't argue with most of the list due to either agreeing or no first hand knowledge but I'm surprised Matsuura was so low on the list. The two that I ran (first a small vertical whose name eludes me and then a larger pallet changing RA-1f) were absolute jewels. Solid like you say but they just ran day in and day out. I agree with putting Haas over them but that's due to price and made in USA. Matsuura was just much more solid. Not trying to start something, just surprised.

[Ydna]

I find varying opinions of Fadals all over the place. From my perspective it seems like most people that like Haas dislike Fadal. But many people I know that only swear by other brands seem to like Fadal.

Only other machine I can add is the 30 taper Fanuc Robodrills. They seemed pretty similar to Fadal to me, like a haas minimill series, except with very nice servo hardware as par from Fanuc of course. I wouldn't buy one of those though since Fanuc will nickle and dime you to DEATH on anything they sell (robot, CNC, whatever). For instance the ability to type letters on the control is an extra charge. A steel table is an extra charge. A stack light is an extra charge. yeesh!

[Pondo]

Originally Posted by fanuc-support.c Haas are the worst machines in comparision of machine, not price obviously. You get what you pay for, $40,000 is good for a machine tool. They are weak and only really capable of machining aluminium. I thought Matsuura machines were good, solid machines that could plough through anything. What about a Chiron. Fastest machine going, very accurate and quite rigid. TheBigJW, Mori's are great.

I think you are a bit mistaken about the Haas mills. The Minimill is about 40K, the VF-3 (40 X 20 X 25) is about 110K for a comparison to a "standard" size. I'd say Bridgeport and Fadal were in the same price range, and compared to them the Haas is hands down the better machine.
I have run 4140PH blocks in a VF-4 for 2 shifts/day for the past 18 months straight with no problems holding the +/-.0005 tolerances on them, and hundreds of different mold components of all types of metals in another VF-4.
I didn't comment on any machines I haven't personally run before. The 2 Fadals I ran were ridiculously flimsy, they could not take a .050 DOC cut with a 2" face mill without the entire machine vibrating and chattering. The Matsuuras I ran both broke down several times in the 18 months I ran them. We were running Vasco C250 miraging steel mold blocks in them at the time though, so that may be a factor. Plus I don't really like the Fanuc controls on them from back in the late 80's. Even now, I prefer the Haas, Mazatrol, OKK, and even the Fadal controllers over the Fanuc. The only controllers I liked less were on a Milltronics, an ancient K&T Orion, and an old G&L bar. Plus the Tiger control on the Sharnoa that ran it's own non-ISO G code.

[kendo]

My favorite machine is still the Tree 4024 that I was broke in on...
the PC based Siemens Acramatic controller w/ touch screen was the schiz-nit. When I left that job and walked into a plant running all Okumas, Moris, and Fadals I was like "WHAT THE"...

I've still never run a G-code machine that was that easy to write and edit programs at the controller. I basically learned programming on my own with the manual in my hand and the RAP function on the screen. That's the most well written programming manual I've seen thus far as well.

It was an old machine too, and still very solid, BUT I never had to make anything on it to tolerance tighter than .005"

[Mike xyz]

Originally Posted by fanuc-support.c Haas are the worst machines in comparision of machine, not price obviously. You get what you pay for, $40,000 is good for a machine tool. They are weak and only really capable of machining aluminium. I thought Matsuura machines were good, solid machines that could plough through anything. What about a Chiron. Fastest machine going, very accurate and quite rigid. TheBigJW, Mori's are great.

Big JW

I find your lack of knowledge about your number one competitor here in the USA very unfortunate. Haas machines are very capable of cutting steel, Titanium and other hard materials and when you can buy two Haas mills for the price of one Japanese machine. They are hard to pass up

Also the Haas control is much easier to use then a Fanuc control and has some nice features like being able to load programs with a USB stick.

Best regards.

Mike

[Delw]

I am pretty unbiased I say if the work then there good.

Ive owned
Acrolocs (6)
hitachi sekies (3)
fadals (3)
haas (1)

Ive run
Matsura
hitachi
mazak
a boss
supermax

I dont care about controls cause I run cad on pretty much everything that way I always have a file for later use. basically I hit the button and walk away and the machine is done and the part is finished.

The Acroloc was by FAR the fastest machine out there for high production runs( up until the 2000's, mainly on multi tool stuff . it was also alot and I mean alot stronger than a cat 40 fadal haas and hitachi for cutting nickle alloys and SS alloys,
It by far is also the biggest POS on the planet ugly as heck, Unless you knew how to work on them they were useless to you, the the tool holders weighed about 18-20 lbs and like to fly off the spindle at 8500 RPMS, 300 IPM rapids too. HOwever it was a very versital machine. even though it only had a 7 inch z axis travel I could raise the head over 20" for very long parts.
ofcourse it had the acroloc finish on any part you machined but a quick spindle modification fixed that.

The easiest control I ever used was a multi seiki ( on the hitachi) then it would be the Haas.

so far they were all good machines, just like anything you do the machine you buy should be for the type of work you do and a little extra, there are machines that are an over kill on alumin and machines that wont cut inconel no matter what you do.

I am still a firm believer in BOX ways. while they are slower in my opinion they are definatly stonger and last alot longer.

[extanker59]

Originally Posted by fanuc-support.c Haas are the worst machines in comparision of machine, not price obviously. You get what you pay for, $40,000 is good for a machine tool. They are weak and only really capable of machining aluminium.

We cut 17-4 and titanium (almost exclusively) here on a Haas VF-2ss. The only time we cut aluminum is when we need some soft jaws to hold a 17-4 or titanium part.
So, I disagree with your statement.

[ntcnc]

Originally Posted by fanuc-support.c Haas are the worst machines in comparision of machine, not price obviously. You get what you pay for, $40,000 is good for a machine tool. They are weak and only really capable of machining aluminium.

Someone who has actually ran a Haas would not make this statement. My Vf4 cuts 4150 pre-heat treat all day with no problems at all. I bought my VF4 new in 2000, I do all my own maintenance and I have only had to replace a limit switch and recharge the counterbalance system in 10+ years. My experience with Mazaks has been AJV-18 and V20. I would put my vf2ss up against the AJV-18 any-day and it was almost exactly 1/2 the price. My other machine experiences: Fadal = Clunky and junky, Hardinge (older chnc) electronics sucked but I could hold tolerance all day long. Kitamura (mycenter 0)(older one cant remember the year sold it as fast as I could) this thing was a joke.