New Machine Build- To buy a Haas VF3SS

[TheBigJW]

Looking to buy one of these new and would like some feedback on must have options. Think I am going to add HRT-A6 and chip auger.

We are a job shop with some of our own products that can make small production runs.

Was thinking about the tool probe system?

John

[dertsap]

tool probing is good for high volume machining cells where tool breakage might be an issue and needs to be monitored otherwise probing of any kind is generally over rated or under utilized , usually in a jobbing shop the machines are under constant supervision due to the typical low volume and quick change over , manually qualifying a tool literally takes seconds so I see no benefit to it . I'd suggest more worthwhile options such as macro's and depending on the type of machining that you do I'd suggest high speed machining ,
because of the short read ahead the machines are pretty jittery when it comes to tight point to point code , the high speed tends to smooth it out and allow the machine to run at the programmed feeds without any delay , Ive programmed parts that were heavily coded and should have been running at the programmed 100-120 ipm but in reality were running at roughly 75ipm because of the short read ahead

[Matt@RFR]

I respectfully, but emphatically disagree with derstap. I have a VF-2ss with the probe package, and I can:

-Find work zero in all three axes in roughly 45 seconds, from calling up the probe, pre-positioning, to the last beep. I don't have to enter anything in the offset page or do math, therefore I can't screw it up.

-Clamp a piece of material (or even the backside of a part) on the table by eye, probe for location and skew, and have an accurate setup with basically no fixturing.

-For akward parts needing akward fixturing for a second op (or 3rd, 4th, etc.), I can sometimes clamp the part in a vice or on the table and have automated probing routines find the part before machining begins.

-Load all my tools, fill out VQC forms and do something else while all my tools are being qualified automatically.

-I have basic probing routine programs pre-written, so basically all I have to do is insert that into my part program, fill in the numbers I need, and I'm off.

-Locate castings accurately, every time, in way less than a minute.

-QC. Within reason, if you have a feature (size, location or BOTH) that likes to move around and you need to monitor it, you can probe it within the program, update work offsets, update G10, G52, and update tool offsets (both length and diameter) All automatically. I know this sounds like a mass production thing, but it isn't. It's easy to implement on small runs as well.

There is a LOT you can do with these systems, and the above is just the tip of the iceberg. Probing, macros, TSC and a 4th axis are all things I would never do without in my shop.

[Donkey Hotey]

Yup, +1 on the probing. I have it on both verticals at work and the one at home. I wouldn't live without it. The other group at work that listened to one of their machinists and didn't get the probing, would like to strangle that guy after seeing how fast we locate parts.

+1 on the tool presetting. I load the tool, edit the preset program, press cycle start and walk away to setup the next tool while the machine does the work. But since that's already been well covered...

I'd consider the 10K/2-speed gearbox spindle instead of the SS, unless you work exclusively in aluminum or small tools. Just this week we went from a bunch of 10K RPM plastic and aluminum parts to making 2.5" pipe fittings out of 316L. We cut the hex in our VF-5 in low gear, at 200 RPM, with a 2.5" shoulder mill. I don't think the SS spindle could pull that off...or at least it would be pushing it.

TSC: if you plan to do lots of drilling (expensive option but, if drilling is your gig...).

24 pocket, side mount tool changer (for a variety of reasons).

2nd home button: It's basically a user-settable home position. I use it to locate the table front & center with the spindle all the way up. No matter where the program leaves it, or having to jog after the power-up in the morning, I can slap this button and return the table to a convenient position. For $300, I think it should just be standard on all their verticals.

HRT210 instead of the A6: The 210 will give you a flat platter that you can mount a chuck to but, it's a little more difficult to go the other way. It's also a bit less expensive. Other than that, they're identical.

4th axis: you forgot this one. If you buy the rotary, you'll need it.

Well, that's a good start. I've gotta' get to work.

[behindpropeller]

+2 on the probe.

Would be lost without this option.

[gpcoe]

+3 for probing. It will save you so much time on setup. Tool setting is invaluable unless you have an offline pre-setter. I used a VF-1 recently with no pre-setter. Using a collet indexer and raising the stock after every run. In other words there was no real z reference. The main tool broke and when I replaced it I had to touch off all the tools again and the blending was all off. Tool setter would have been quite the time saver at that point. Plus the probing option with toolsetter is roughly 5k and comes with macros and rotation/scaling so the probe system is really only 3500 or so.

Greg

[dertsap]

Originally Posted by gpcoe In other words there was no real z reference. The main tool broke and when I replaced it I had to touch off all the tools again and the blending was all off. Greg

its always best to have a secluded point to reference from then shift accordingly (tool probe would fall into the same category) .
I agree with everyone that probing can be a great thing but I do stand by what I said originally and that it is " generally over rated or under utilized "

[Ydna]

Personally I find the probe handy when locating the center of a circular part, but when it comes to most of the non-circular workpieces that run through our machines I find it to be a wasted endeavor. A few yonks ago I got into the habit of not edgefinding for "any part I didn't need to", but instead use a gage pin for an X-zero hardstop, and the fixed vice jaw as the Y zero. It turns out that a huge percentage of the jobs I happen to do end up being like that (so long as they're programmed correctly).

But when I need to dial in a feature center, it's awesome. Though I don't notice it when setting tools. Albeit I admit I don't do in-process tool checking unless there's a problem.

BUT the real reason why I came here to post is that we decided to get the probe for one of our machines (SMM) because it was so cheap compared to the cost for macros, which is something I find to be extremely useful. We do serial number engraving, aprts counting, and all sorts off other logical operations. When it came time to activate the feature we decided to splurge and get the probe too since we knew there'd be *some* situation where it was useful.
However our extensive use of macros certainly isn't representative of everyone, for sure. We still default to posting most of our programs and don't have the need to add macros into them, despite that we have a few scarce parts where macros became invaluable.

[TheBigJW]

I am a little worried about getting a machine without a gear box. What do you guys think would be the largest spade drill I could use in 4140 HTSR.
We have one application for 1.187 dia. hole in mild steel 2.5 deep.

What about a 5/8-11 tapped hole in same material?

John

[titleist]

i had the same question the other day. I called my local HFO and they told me to call fotcnc.com.
These guys are awesome. they said they have a VF2ss and run 2" drills on it all the time in steel. They did say that spade drills require more torque than a double inserted drill and recommended that if i wanted to run a 2"; then to go to the double inserted drill.