Need Help!- About to take a big plunge (buying a TM1, and need advice)!

[millnturn]

Hi,
My head is spinning right now. I just came across an opportunity to buy a 2004 TM1 in excellent condition, and I think I just might do it. I have not gone to look at the machine yet (it is an hour drive), but from talking to the guy selling it, and pictures, it looks great. I have a few things to work out first.

Besides getting financial arrangements (the wife) in place, I am most interested in determining if I can fit it through my 7' garage door. Has anyone actually done this, and if so, what was involved? If someone has a TM1 sitting nearby, would you be willing to take a tape measure and see what the absolute highest point on the machine is, that is not readily removable? I assume I would have to pull the braking resistor, possibly the Z-axis servo motor, possibly the flexible conduit to the Z, etc. From what I have found through searching on this subject, is that is will be a serious squeeze. I really don't want to have to tear into the trim around the door opening, as it is sided and has aluminum clad trim, but if that's what it takes to have a Haas in my garage!....

I run a small business from my home, specializing in custom design, fabrication, and machining. I have a 3-axis knee mill that I rebuilt, and retrofitted with Mach 3 based controls. This has been an awesome project as I have learned a LOT about electronics, and having the mill has giving me the opportunity to cut my teeth in CNC.

I am ready to graduate to a real machine, and concentrate my business around that capability. My main goal is to develop a line of accessories for consumer electronics. This will involve prototyping parts, and ultimately, machining basic injection molds. Is it realistic to assume that I will be able to do quality mold machining in steel on a TM1. I have no misconceptions about the machine being a full blown machining center. I am not trying to be profitable at mold making, so if it is slow, but precise and effective, I will be completely happy.

The TM1 I am looking at is well equipped, and has very low hours on it. It has a tool changer, rigid tapping, coolant, extended chip shields, comes with 20 tools, many of them ER16 and 32 (with collets), two Parlec vises, a seat of 2009 Gibbs 2.5D, etc. The seller was in a similar situation, where he and a friend started a business from their garage, and kept their day jobs. They were trying to be a competitive job shop, and just finally decided they want to get out of it. As a result, the machine has been well cared for, and lightly used.

For those in the know, does all this for under $20,000 seem like a good deal? To me it does, but I have not been closely watching the prices on these specific machines, and this opportunity just came up. I would really appreciate any insight people have to offer. I am sure I will be back with more questions shortly.

Thanks in advance,
Jon

[Donkey Hotey]

That does sound too good to be true. Call your HFO and make sure there isn't a lien on it. If they haven't released the final unlock code, you could be in deep trouble when the 800 hours runs out. Even if it has more hours, make sure about the lien. I believe they have other codes for leased machines and they can incrementally enable the machine until it's paid for.

Also: Gibbs (and most software) isn't transferable. The software nazis will be out looking for you if you advertise that around. It's not bootleg in my eyes but, their licenses say otherwise. The software essentially has zero transferable value.

As for height, it'll absolutely fit through a door. At worst, maybe the Z axis cable track will need to be unbolted and laid on its side but, I doubt it.

[double a-ron]

Just that seat of gibbs with 2.5d isn't cheap. Depending on any other options it has that is about 7 or 8,000 new. I say jump on it.

[millnturn]

Hi Greg,
Great info!

I had no idea about the non-transferability of Gibbs. I will look into it to make sure, but since the guy wanted more for the mill if Gibbs was included, I will likely decline.

Also, will look into the lien issue. I am planning on visiting the local HFO tomorrow, then trying to visit the seller tomorrow evening. I will inquire while I am there. I want to see the new machines, and try and bounce the opportunity I have off the salesman. Might be interesting to see what his take is, and see what he tries to offer for a new machine.

Just curious, do you have a TM1, or work with one? You sound pretty confident that it will clear my door. I have done a ton of searching on the topic for the past day, and even from the dimensions on the Haas site, cannot figure out what the absolute min. height is. I am not doubting you, only interested in knowing for fact that it will fit. I am so excited about this machine, I would HATE for my garage door to be the reason I can't have it!

Thanks,
Jon

[garrod1082]

I am in UK and bought a TM1 last year. I have got it in to my workshop which has a 48" wide doorway 6'6" high. In the UK you cannot buy a TM1 with a toolchanger so that was not fitted. However in less than a day I removed the electrical cabinet, overarm and monitor as a single unit, the Y axis motor (so that the Z axis lead screw which projects forward of the casting could be pushed back), and the front section of the drip tray and then it went through the door sideways on with the Z fully lowered. All the electrical connections are unique plugs/sockets but I took lots of pictures first just for peace of mind. I took the 'foot beams' off the main casting (only two allen bolts per casting which lowers the whole thing by 5-6". I used a pallet truck (pump truck) to move it. Good luck!!!

[123tool]

Jon, like others have said my riggers removed the legs and loosened the cable track clamp from a TM-1P then drove the machine under a standard garage door. IMO -The only concern you really need to look at is how will you contain the coolant which will be all over the place. Price... start low then see how they react. IMO again look at Onecnc which is on sale a couple times a year.

[Ken_Shea]

Just measured, 7' 5" from the floor to the top of the heater box at the top rear, if it goes through a 7' door with the base pads off it wll be a squeaker.

+ another on OneCNC, now version XP4.

[CJH]

Another thing to make sure of is it has the origonal shipping bracket for the spindle. You should not move the machine without this in place. If it doesn't have it, you can probaly buy it from the HFO for a few hundred bucks, atleast that's the price i was quoted when i couldn't find the one for our machine. I eventually found it though.

I had talked wth a tech about how to move a TM and said we had gotten advice to just lower the spindle into a block of wood and hit the stop and it would be fine to travel. Based upon what tech said, this was was bad advice and would cause us major problems in the future. Also make sure you have some good blocking under the control to make sure it is steadfast in transit as well.

The price sounds good, if you buy it you should be happy with the machine. Our '04 has been running strong since we bought it.

CJH.

[millnturn]

I got back from visiting the local HFO, where I spent some time with a couple guys who walked me through the feature of the mill, and explained a lot of stuff. It was also a good chance to hear what a brand new machine sounds like. After that, I drove up to see the machine in question.

Everything looks great, and was well represented by the guy over the phone (phew!). It has a bit of grime and dried coolant, but the paint is nearly mint. I had to put on my poker face when he showed me the machine hour meter; cycle start hrs: 1117, cutting hrs: 620!!! Oh, have I found the "diamond in the rough"? I cant wait to go over it with degreaser and Cimguard. This thing will shine again! The only mechanical problems I saw were the flexible conduit that contains the X-axis motor cables is cracked, but the cables are perfect. Also, the telescoping cover over the back side of the Y-axis ballscrew has a dent in it, but looks like it could be easily straightened out.

He ran a program for a part that he made, and it ran brilliantly. It cut smooth and quiet, and the finish was excellent. The thing that impressed me the most was the step in the cycle where he form tapped a 3-48 thread at 1200 RPM. I pretty much decided I HAD to have it at that moment!

We are still talking about the price, as he needs to clear my offer with his business partner, but I think it will be worked out by tomorrow morning. Till then, I am keeping my fingers crosssed.

Thanks to everyone for their help and advice.

Jon

[Donkey Hotey]

Did? The? HFO? Release? The? Serial? Number? Or? Is? There? A? Lien?

[millnturn]

Originally Posted by Donkey Hotey Did? The? HFO? Release? The? Serial? Number? Or? Is? There? A? Lien?

All free and clear. They paid it off last year, and have the letter from the bank confirming that it is entirely paid off. Regardless, the HFO has no idea if there is a lien on a machine that is financed by a third party.

I met up with the seller today to put a deposit on the deal, and sign purchase agreements. We ended up agreeing on the machine, Gibbs 2009, a tool presetter with Mitutoyo height stand, all the tool holders for the machine (25 or so), and a 5' tall Lista type (can't remember the brand) tool cabinet FULL of tooling. It literally has the contents of a decent job shop tool crib: carbide EM's from .012 to 1.25", drills (thousands), taps (hundreds), indexable EM's, face mills (7), insert drills, inserts, soft jaws, etc, and every drawer divided, sorted and labeled! The price took some negotiating, but in the end, I think he is happy to be out, and I just bought a machine shop, for the price of a used mill.

Now, off to move machines, benches, and stuff in preparation for the new toy moving in. Know anybody looking to buy a nice, big Lagun 3-axis CNC knee mill? I am going to put the machine on Craigslist, and see what happens. I am not moving the Haas home for a week and a half, and it's going to drive me crazy waiting for it!

Jon

[KevinWilkins]

Best wishes for success with the new machine! It sounds like you got a great deal. I have a 2005 TM1 and it is a great machine. Make yourself (or draw them up and have a sheet matal shop make) a set of splash guards out stainless steel with the ends closed of. You will stop about 95% of the spash problems with those.