Advice from you experienced Guyz..

[Datum1]

to Haas or not to Haas???

My shop currently has 3 mori seiki (2-mills with Fanuc 10m and 1 lathe with Fanuc 11m)..Im looking into buying another VMC, but before i do. I would like to gather as much advice from the top dawgz of this industry..I need a rigid machine.. capable of machining aluminum and steel all day, and occasionally titanium and etc. Due to the Linear way-- How often does the Haas need routine replacement/rebuild.-- I rather not be out a few grand! !, Its diff. wen im only 22 years old and paying for everything.-- geezzes!!> I think im going to be broke.

.SO guyz dont be afraid to help a rookie out. My Mori seiki are currently up for grabz as well, so if you have any inquires please contact the number below.

Thank-to all my CNC junkies..

[MBG]

my place has two mori seiki and a bunch of mazka

[carbidecraters]

Depends on the linear ways...the linear ways that Hass was using in the 90's were pretty light for any heavier milling. Unless they've changed I wouldnt bother with a linear way machine. You mori's are cadillacs...you should look to a milltronics for the price range

[Chris D]

I am not a big fan of linear ways for general application machines. They work great for high speed machining and in some turning centers. It seems as though the cut-off point of performance is around 10 HP spindle horsepower (this applies to both lathes and mills).

If you have less than 10 spindle HP, then chances are good you won't run into too many problems with cutting conditions (Chatter being a primary problem of linear ways) or any problems with service life.

Beyond 10 HP, it seems as though it is very hit or miss in the industry as to whether or not you are going to have a good machine or not. I have seen some 30 HP mill cut great with linear ways and I have seen 10 HP machines that sounded like they were going to fall apart. These observations are primarily around newer machines (both at trade shows and in shops).

If I was buying a machine and these were my criteria...

Ability to cut just about anything that will fit
Ability to cut just about any material that needs machining
A good probability I won't have to deal with chatter on every tool
Good rapid performance
Heavy work weight capacity

I would choose a box way machine over linear way machines.

Box way machines just seem to perform better in a wider range of applications.

Now keep in mind, I am a fan of box way machines as I have a very diverse background in CNC along with seeing a very wide variety of applications. In other words, I HAVE to be sold on the benefits of linear way machines, AND if I am sold one, then someone darn well better back up their claims when problems arise.

Chris (who is biased towards box way machines).

[HuFlungDung]

I like the concept of the linear ways, because I like to imagine I could always restore my machine to new condition if I really had to. Pretty tough to do that with box ways.

I don't know how much they can harden the ways on a box ways machine, but I'm assuming that linear ways are very hard. That means, I don't have to "feel sorry" for my Haas as it does thousands of passes on a planar finish cut, because the linear ways have a very long life, without excessive lubrication.

Monster cuts are kind of "the old way" of doing things, unless the part requires heavy stock removal. If you do lots of that type of work, the box way machine likely has its advantage. Whether it can finish the part any better than a linear way machine, I am doubtful, because by that time in the process, vibrations from cutting are very low.

I'm not sure about linear ways on a lathe, and how they behave during roughing. I'd really have to watch one or try one out to see if it performed to my expectations.

[DAB_Design]

Datum1, any chance you have images of your machines online? (with prices?)

I may know someone that might be looking into more machines.

[miljnor]

linear ways of the future... old ways always die hard! The mori's are better machines but haas is good for the money. Why get rid of moris and spend more money on a lesser machine?

I own 10 haas and have cut everything and they can do it contrary to some people, and like HuFlungDung said that heavy cutting is old school. Box ways are more riggid but they are typicaly slower or if not slower massivly more expensive.

ITs either time or money! cant get around it...

buy the haas...

thats my thought on the subject.

[Kool Parts]

The ways are the last thing I would worry about. Dealer and service support are one area I would look at. As far as Haas goes I have had very few problems (4th axis encoders ) And Haas does change all the time. You cant compare a machine they built in the 90's to todays. My first two VM were only 6 months apart but they had a ton of changes for the better. But I do things a little different than some shops. If I have a chunk of steel on the table, I wont stick the endmill in quite as far if were alum Might even slow the feed down a hair.
Gary

[Seth A.]

Hey Datum 1,

I am also a fan of linear ways. I'm in a shop with 3 Haas VMC's and 1 Haas SL-40 lathe. Our oldest Haas VMC is a 1995 and the newest is a 2001 we have never had any limitations based on the way design. Our biggest limitation has been that all of our VMC's are 40 taper. We have a VF-5 that we wish was a 50 taper. We also cut all types of material from plastic to aluminium to 17-4 stainless steel to titanium. We work these machines hard and fast! Seem to be great machines. I know that there are better(more expensive) machines out there but you get a lot of bang for the buck with Haas.

Seth

[Kool Parts]

All the talk about new machines has my desk covered in catalogs. I swore the next Haas I bought would be a FV 7. I was at a shop a few years ago and seen one in person.... huge. But I find my self needing / wanting a Horizontal. I wish I could get the time to get out to East Teck.I would love to see whats new and improved. Who here is working with a new whizzbang Horiz?
Gary

[psychomill]

I am not a big fan of linear ways for general application machines. They work great for high speed machining and in some turning centers. It seems as though the cut-off point of performance is around 10 HP spindle horsepower (this applies to both lathes and mills).

This to me is pretty generalized and bold statement. I'm not to sure that you can attribute the chatter on parts or noise purely to the fact that the machine had linear guides. Most of my machines are linear. From 15HP, 20HP, 30HP,... all the way 75HP. And they all cut like nobody's business. I also have box way machines. The box ways are traditionaly stout. Most people attribute this to box ways and not linear. My biggest problem with box way machines is that most of them at high feeds can't get out of their own way, slow acceleration, and increased deceleration window (relative to linear guides).

I cut a lot of steel on linear guides. I've never had to replace one because of it.

Not knowing the price range he's looking in makes it a guess as how the Haas would stack up for him. But going from Mori to a Haas? Thats retro in my opinion.

Just my experience.

[Halfnutz]

This thread needs pictures please. Thanks.