VF-2ss SMTC down; Alarms 940, 942, 127, 625

[Matt@RFR]

My machine is down, and it happened 12 tapped holes before a rush job was done!

Machine was running along just fine when the toolchanger alarmed out:

--Alarm 625 - Carousel positioning error

So I tried to go through the recover process hoping it would home itself, but no luck... same alarm. I then powered down the machine, powered up, homed all axes and the carousel started moving towards T24 (my home tool) normally, then started moving very slowly, then alarmed out:

Chunk..chunk..chunk.....chunk............chunk................chunkREDLIGHT

--Alarm 127 - No turret mark

Now, no matter what I try, I get any combination of the above two alarms, plus:

--Alarm 940 - Sidemount carousel error
--Alarm 942 - Carousel position timeout

I don't understand. I check the toolchanger oil level atleast once a month, and have never had to add to it...which makes me think it should have been using oil but wasn't. It is either overfull from the factory (inside the sight glass is the same color as the oil I bought for it), or it is empty from the factory. Sure looks like oil in there though. (This is the point of the other thread I started...where is the drain plug?)

I pulled the side panel (the numbered one) and the top panel off and had an in-depth look at the workings, but honestly I don't know what I'm looking at. I see proxy switches (which are all clean) and some mechanical stuff, which is all greased and clean, so I'm not sure where to look next.

Any ideas? I'd like to try anything I can myself before calling a tech in.

[Haas__man]

Can you get the carousel to move? or will it not move at all? When you are using recovery you should be able to get the acrousel to move slowly cw or ccw.
You should see a brushed motor that is hanging upside down. It is attatched via a toothed belt to a cam. The cam is the part the turns the carousel.
There should be a proximity switch next to the cam - it tells the machine when a pocket is oposite the spindle. There is another proximity switch that only registers once during a full revolution of the carousel to tell the machine where pocket one is. You can tell when the proximity switches change state because a light should turn on or off.

Also - if you are getting carousel positioning error - the problem is not with the cambox. The cambox turns the twinarm only - it does not turn the carousel.

[Matt@RFR]

Originally Posted by Haas__man Can you get the carousel to move? or will it not move at all? When you are using recovery you should be able to get the acrousel to move slowly cw or ccw.

When in recovery, I can push the left or right arrow keys many times and the carousel might move once...then again it might not. When it does move, it makes normal sounds, it just won't move for the most part.

You should see a brushed motor that is hanging upside down. It is attatched via a toothed belt to a cam. The cam is the part the turns the carousel. There should be a proximity switch next to the cam - it tells the machine when a pocket is oposite the spindle. There is another proximity switch that only registers once during a full revolution of the carousel to tell the machine where pocket one is. You can tell when the proximity switches change state because a light should turn on or off.

Ok, I understand all of the above and located everything when I first took the sheetmetal off. Neither proxy switch is lit, but the only way (I am guessing) to test those switches is if the carousel will move. Correct? I did make sure that those switches were clean, the wiring is tight and the brackets are tight.

Also - if you are getting carousel positioning error - the problem is not with the cambox. The cambox turns the twinarm only - it does not turn the carousel.

Got it. Thanks very much for the help so far.

[Haas__man]

Another few things that you could try.
You could try to alter parameter 312.
The description for this is carousel bump time.
It is only used during recovery - and is the amount the arm moves every time you press the left or right cursor key - i.e if you double the parameter, the carousel should move twice as far - if you put a very large number in then the carousel will just spin and never stop.
If this does not tell you anything or help at all - then reset the parameter to what it was.

There are some relays on the i/o pcb (bottom left of electrical cabinet)
On the i/o pcb look near the top middle for 4 relays marked tc cw, tc ccw, shuttle in, shuttle out.
All four relays are the same type. swap the carousel relays for the shuttle relays (they should just unclip).
If this does not help.

Remove the upside down motor.
Take off the belt.
Put the motor back on.
Now try recovery again.
Does the motor move now?
can you turn the cam and therefor move the carousel by hand?
*****do not try to tool change while the belt is off*******
if you try to tool change with the belt off then you could damage your toolchanger.
When you re fit the belt and tension it - there is no need to set anything up as the machine is just looking for proximity switches.

Also - have you tried testing the proximity switches?
Put a steel rule next to them to see if they change state.

Hope this helps.

[gpcoe]

I've had this type of error when the alarm goes off while the carousel is moving and when a tool over 3" dia is stored next to another large dia tool (may not quite be 3"). Then when the carousel advances to the next tool it jams. Check for this and if you do have interference you'll have to pop one of the tools out with a screwdriver or other prying device. Once there's no interference you should be able to power the machine down and back on. When it comes up again it'll alarm once again, but then will give you the option of moving the carousel. The problem is that the carousel is slightly out of position and the control is kinda lost. You can press the left and right key (when prompted in recovery) to bring it back into position. What's confusing is that the carousel will look like it's moving fast and then when it gets closer to the correct position it slows down almost to the point that it doesn't look like it's moving at all. At this point you should be able to press write/enter and the carousel will find it's home position and continue with recovery. Be sure to check all of your tools are in the right position. The last time this happened to me every tool was no longer assigned correctly and I had to remove everything and reload the carousel.

Hope this helps

Greg

[Matt@RFR]

Thanks Greg. When in recovery, like I stated before, sometimes pressing left/right arrows results in the carousel moving, but mostly it doesn't move at all.

After that, when I press write/enter, that's when I get the timeout error.

I'm going to try the things Haas_man suggested Monday morning and I will report back.

[Matt@RFR]

Changing parameter 312 from 30 (stock) all the way up to 10,000 acted the same way as pushing and holding the left/right arrow keys...sometimes it moves, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it moves several pots, sometimes it's just one little twitch...not even a full pot worth.

One thing that helped me notice though, is that in recovery, the page shows you several parameters. One is called "Tool In Pos". When the carousel does move, I can see that bit flicker from 0 to 1 as a pot passes by (right?), but every time the carousel stops, that bit is 0. This means that it isn't phased correctly, right?

Passing a steel rule in front of the proxy switch on the carousel wheel lights it up. I assume this is the 'tool 1' switch. The other switch that is located by the big cam does NOT light up when the steel rule is passed between the switch and the cam. Is this the entire problem? It doesn't seem like that would account for all the symptoms. EDIT TO CORRECT: The proxy switch on the big cam DOES light up. I have the belt off and can turn everything by hand quite freely.

On the I/O PCB, I found four identical things located where you said, but none of them are marked (nor are there markings on the board itself) that match what you wrote. They are labeled "Omron 12VDC", and on the board is marked K9, K10, K11 and K12. I do not have enough knowledge to be switching stuff around willy nilly.

I'm almost done with taking the sheetmetal off, so I'll report back when I get that far.

[Matt@RFR]

Can I remove the black block that seems to house the mechanism that tilts each tool pot down inside the enclosure without losing any adjustment? That is the ONLY way I'm going to get the bottom toolchanger cover off. I have the rest of it off and I can see the drain plug, but can't access it.

I can take the carousel motor off though, so I'll try that right now.

[Matt@RFR]

I think I'm at the heart of the problem, but I still don't know what to do about it.

I have the belt off the carousel motor with my electrical tester hooked up to its connector and a good chassis ground. Here's what I get:

- E-stop: -6.0 Mv
- "carousel moving, please wait" on screen, but no motor movement: 88.6VDC
- Motor running: 78.8VDC

In recovery, after I push Y, it says "carousel moving, please wait". At that point, in 5 tries, I've had it pause for roughly 15 seconds, 6 seconds and 25 seconds, then the carousel motor starts to run. The other two tries absolutely nothing happened (including the voltage drop listed above) for over a minute.

The motor sounds good, does not get warm when recieving the 88 volts, and once running, stays running.

It's got to be something in the cabinet, but what?

[haastec]

Another thing you can try is with the carousel motor belt disconnected, try to command an M39 T(any number);

This will rotate the carousel only to the T# that you input but will not try to change tools. However, since the belt is not connected you may generate an alarm but mostly you are looking to see if the motor shaft is spinning.

To answer your earlier question, K9-K12 are the relays that Haas_Man is referring to.

Also, I am assuming that the belt looks good.

Keep us posted.

[Matt@RFR]

The belt looks like it has never been used.

I tried switching the relays with no change. I only tried this after verifying that all four relays were the exact same part number, so there should be no harm in trying it. I'm looking at replacing that board anyway...

I tried M39 T1 in MDI, but got an alarm saying that there is a parameter that needs to change from 0 to 1 for M39 to work, but could not find the parameter.

What I have noticed is that relay K12 contacts whether the motor spins or not. Atleast the little window turns orange, that's what I'm assuming means the relay contacts are working.

Also, just below and to the right of those relays is a bank of red lights. The banks are labeled DISP1 and DISP2. On DISP1, TC CCW has a red light only when the carousel should be moving, and on DISP2, SERVO BRK has a red light on all the time. Now, the TC CCW light might be because the carousel belt is disconnected, I don't know.

So basically, no change.

I think it's down to the motor (which the tech I talked to doubts), and the I/O PCB, which is $700.

If noone comes up with anything else tonight, I'll schedule a service call in the morning.

[rlabonte18]

we have had to replace the brushes in that motor on some machines. Maybe you might want to check that.