Thoghts on SL20

[panaceabea]

I am getteng ready to purchase a small turning center and looking at the HAAS site I am really liking the looks of the SL20. Size , price specs look just right for my needs .

I would like to hear good and bad about this paticular machine, I am not looking for any Hass bashers or theory , just honest opinions form guys that have some hours on the sl20 and folks that bought another machine instead and why.

If you have any reccomendations on other machines with similar specs pricing please let me know. Small shop , tiny budget $60K or less and just want to make the right purchase.
Again not looking for any bashing just honest thoughts
Thanks in advance

[gar]

080126-1049 EST USA

panaceabea:

We are generally happy with the machine. Most of the time we use a Hardinge 22J collet. Only rarely is a chuck loaded. Large diameter steel is slow because there is no gear box.

The ease of use of the HAAS control is of great importance to us.

Some parts made on our SL-20 are at my web site
http://beta-a2.com/misc_photos.html

There is some thermal drift and we manually compensate this. We can hold in the few tenths range.

I do not recommend the tool setter. We destroyed ours very early on.

.

[PBMW]

Ihave an SL10. I got a lemon. But, That said...it's made me a lot of money. This decision rally depends on your parts or the parts you forsee making. Stainless? Aluminum?
I cut a LOT of Stainless. When I first started, I had predicted about 80% aluminum. HA!! My SL10 does fine in 303 and 304. Things get a little ugly in 316. I do a lot of 17-4 but I heat treat it to H1100 and it's fine. Annealed and I got troubles. Service is a huge thing with me. You'll want to call around to other Haas shops in your area to see how they feel about their level of service.
I did a couple hundred 2.5 dia slugs of 4340. They were about 46 or so on the C scale. Turn them to 2.25 and drill a 1.25 hole through. I did them from each end. My little lathe was huffing and puffing at the end of that job. A 1.25 spade drill ran at about 180% I didn't think I was being really all that agressive. The lathe didn't like it. They also ran on my Daewoo at the same time. No issues over there.
I own a mill and a lathe fron Haas. The mill is by far more reliable. I realize I got a lemon. That is part of it. But I've paid attention and have heard a lot of guys with Haas lathes are not as happy with them as the mill guys are. I have a customer that has a couple dozen mills and prolly 8 lathes. They have more issues with the lathes than the mills. I got nuttin scientific to back that up. Just my observation.
My SL10 moves around a bit. My Daewoo does not. It'll hold .0002 all day. The Haas won't. At least not without babysitting it. Mine has a barfeed on it and I'd just as soon not have to babysit it. That's why I bought a barfeed...
Fair bang for the buck. There are some things that annoy me about it. The coolant lines are easy to get plugged up. I get chips all the time caught up in the ER16 collets. Blocks the coolant. The operator ain't smart enough to see that and burns up cutters. I don't think that is such an issue with the SL20 though as it has a slideout coolant tank. The SL10 does not.
So, really...depends on what you forsee making with it and how you intend to run it.
I have a probe on mine and like it just fine.

[panaceabea]

is there a diff machine you wish you had purchased in hindsight?

99% of my work is with 6061 aluminum

[gar]

panaceabea:

No.

If we had ultrahigh accuracy requirements, like peak-to-peak variation less than 0.000,3", then a different machine would be considered. Note a peak-to-peak variation would correspond to a standard deviation of about 0.000,3/6 .

I basically like the easy of use of the HAAS control. We have other HAAS machines and the similarity of controls and methods are desirable. Gerotech is our dealer and generally provides good service.

The reason I would not get their tool setter is that the support is too flimsy, and separately we wiped out the arm with the turret. If the machine can resolve 0.000,1", then the tool setter support should have repeatability better than that resolution, and their setter arm does not.

I would like a low cost but good tool changer to provide loading capability to at least one turret position. Long tools are always a problem.

.

[Geof]

Have you gone through the Haas lathe and mill forums? You need to scan both because lathes are mentioned in both; you will find widely conflicting opinions. I have HL1s which are more or less equivalent to the SL20 just older, SL10s, GT20 and TLs. The problems I have had have been trivial; replacing starter switches on Coolant Pump motors, which doesnt't really count, a new counterweight spring on a HL1 Big Bore which is 9 years old, and a few software issues.

But as gar points out if you want to work to close tolerances maybe a different machine is the way to go. For small diameter bar work in leaded steel and aluminum with a generous tolerance of +/-0.001" I think they are best value for money. You can get +/-0.0005" without much hair tearing but if you need +/-0.0002" all day long it is possible but you need to baby the machine; warm it up in the morning, keep the spindle running over the lunch break, and don't stick in a bar length that can do 200 parts and just leave the machine to run.

[big_mak]

I've been looking @ these. You may want to look @ a FEMCO HL-25 Durga.

http://www.femcousa.com/cnc-machine-...DurgaVideo.asp

[clund]

I run an SL-10 and really like it. I bar feed aluminum and steel with it and it holds
+-.0005 all day. I like the tool setter. Gets you in the ballpark (+-.001) really quick. I usually back the tools off anyway on the first part. I think the advantage to the Haas machines are in their simplicity. They setup faster than anything else I've run. They also don't have as much crap in the electrical cabnets to fail. I've run some Mazak and G+L machines with cabnet air conditioners, air filters, proximity switches on everything, etc. Becomes a real nightmare when the error codes start flashing. If you need to hog in 4140, tough stainless, or turn large diameters you'll want a heavier machine with more HP and box ways. Whatever you get, make sure you know what the service is going to be like. Out here in the sticks if you have something other than Haas and it breaks down, you'll be SOL for weeks.

[PBMW]

I'm not sure where you are, But in my neighborhood...I don't get so good service. I'm in Seattle (near there) Took em I think 6 or 7 DAYS to even get here the last time. I use my SL10 for jobs that require .001 or so dia tol. It'll run at .0005. You want any better than that and you got to babysit it.
When I first bought it I was excited about it. Then I found what it would and would not do. I have a couple of recurring jobs that are plus .0002 minus nuttin. This haas don't want to play. I bought another machine and that's not an issue with it. I run the looser parts on the Haas.
I'll give you that it's very easy to set up. Very easy control to learn. Very easy control to use.
So is a Fanuc
For me in my shop, my bread and butter is in doing the difficult, close tol parts that no one else wants to mess with. I chose to do that stuff. Granted.
For the money that I paid for this machine, And the parts that I make. I could have bought a better machine that would hold closer tol, and be able to remove material faster than what I bought. So, it really depends on what you want to do with the machine. If you don't need to hold closer tols, great...If you ro however, this may not be the machine for you. It really all depends on what you want the machine to do.

[g30u0w0]

I wish I could get my haas sl10 to hold .001-.002 over the course of a day. Just won't do it. I think other posters are right as long has you have a good margin for tolerances and the ability to walk away from what you are doing to make an adjustment every 1/2 hour it works great. But, if you want to leave a machine unattended or hold tighter tolerance or take a .200"-.250" roughing pass look somewhere else. Daewoo makes a nice machine. It is more money but has been real reliable for me.

[panaceabea]

thanks I am looking at a low hour used femco 25 thats in my price range currently, I am in nort florida and all major industrial machinery dealers/service guys are 200+ miles away so service on my existing machinery takes 3-5 days minimum. The service guy for my milltronics is 403 miles away so relability is a big factor for me. Heading down to the haas dealer in Tampa wednesday and then the daewoo dealer that afternoon to look at some of my options , I would like a machine with gearbox for the occasional run of heavy steel parts .

[PBMW]

If you have a run of heavier steel parts, look at a Daewoo. There are others, Look at an Okuma, look at a Mori. Look at a Mazak. Those are all very capable machines that also have great reliability records. They are more money, granted, but you can save a lot of money in reduced down time. You ARE planning on down time aren't you?