Haas TL-1 Lathe torque...

[DJPdesign]

I am near to ordering a Toolroom type lathe.
I am considering the TL-1 or 2.
A TL-1 should be big enough for most of our work, but considering the TL-2 for the extra power / rigidity.
Will probably with the Coolant, enclosure, 4 station ATC.

This machine will obviously hold larger work pieces, but I am concerned about of torque from the vector drive single speed setup. (especially at lower speeds).

Can people let me know how successfully they have turned larger parts on this machine?

I can imagine that it would turn 4inch EN24(T), but will this machine cut Stainless at 6-8 inches?

Does anyone have a torque output for the motor?

Many thanks for you help in advance.

Dan

[Geof]

Look in the machines specs on the Haas website for the motor torque; I think maximum is something like 175 lb ft at a few hundred rpm...could be faulty memory though.

You are correct about torque being an issue with a direct drive/no gear box. I have machined 8" OD aluminum and 4" leaded steel and it is easy to run the spindle over 100% even with modest depth of cut (0.06") and feed (0.005"/rev).

The TL2 has a bigger motor than the TL1; 12 versus 7.5hp but it can only do longer parts not larger in diameter. I don't see the rigidity being much different, the only difference is the main casting is a bit longer but it is the same cross section.

I think you might be pushing it on 6 - 8" stainless.

[WOLOG]

I think the TL-2 has an option for a 18HP motor. Get it! I find the 12hp is not enough.

[Geof]

I checked the Haas website because the 18hp did not ring a bell in my memory.

The standard TL2 has 12hp 2000 rpm, max torque 150lb-ft at 150 rpm.

With the full enclosure the higher speed option is available. This is 12hp 3500rpm but the description does not say whether the torque figure is changed.

I have been told the 3500rpm option is not just a case of changing Parameters, it is a different spindle assembly with higher rated bearings.

[DJPdesign]

Thanks you all for your help and as ever very rapid responses!
After a fair bit of searching. I have the following data.

TL1
Power 7.5HP
Torque 100ft-lb @375RPM

TL2
Power 12HP
Torque 150ft-lb @150RPM

TL1
Power 7.5HP
Torque 204ft-lb @417RPM

Are these figures MAX torque, continuous? Or could this be doubled (200% for 5 mins?)

There is an option on the TL1 for an upgraded motor. I am trying to get the numbers of this from Haas.

I am not sure exactly how a Vector Drive Motor works, but in the case of the TM1.
If the Max Torque is 100ft-lbs at 375 RPM, You should be getting almost max power at this speed (7.5HP).
If we assume that this system in linear, then at 200RPM you get 100ft-lbs torque but only (7.5/375*200) 4HP available.
If we go for 100 RPM the there is 2HP available?

It looks like this is not enough power at lower RPM’s to cut 8inch Steels or Stainless.
If you increase the RPM you would increase the power available, but in my mind the surface cutting speed would be too high at 8 inch diameter.

Geof, its good to know that 8inch Aluminum can be cut. Thanks

Do you think that it would be possible to machine an EN25 Flywheel? 300mm diameter?

Thanks for you help, in advance, I take note of the responses and will post any findings on the motor upgrade for the TL-1.


Thanks again

Dan

[Geof]

I am not a motor Guru but as far as I understand it torque depends on the current flowing in the motor so if you go to 200% you have doubled your torque. I believe with the Haas motors you can go for 30 min at 120% and 10 minutes at 195% or something like that.

Power is torque x by rpm and it can vary with rpm. Just because the torque is maximum at a certain speed does not mean, I think, that the motor is at maximum power, motors are not linear. For instance if you doubled the rpm but the torque only dropped by 40% you would be getting more power. Things like frequency and voltage all come into it; these motors are variable frequency and the driving voltage also has to be varied with frequency and it all gets complicated.

You need to see a proper torque curve for the motor to know what the power is at any particular rpm.

You are correct about the problem with larger diameters meaning the speed has to be slow which puts you into lower torque.

I have an idea for putting in a layshaft to give a 2 : 1 reduction between the motor and spindle. I described it in a different thread but cannot remember where. Because the controller drives the motor by frequency and then looks for the speed to match what it is expecting I think I would have to change the encoder drive also. I would halve the spindle speed and drive the encoder at twice spindle speed. This way the controller sees the correct encoder speed and is happy. But in reality the spindle is turning at half speed with twice the torque. I would have to compensate for that in my program; if I wante 500 rpm I would program 1000 rpm and if I wanted .005" per rev feed I would program 0.0025".

I will find out whether this is doable in about a year.

[Edster]

The TL-1 can be run in single or three phase. Do you guys think the output would be less if run on single phase?

[gar]

070712-1616 EST USA

Ed:

The vector drive motor runs from a nominal 325 V DC bus. This bus is is the output of a capacitor input filter fed from a multi-phase rectifier.

For a given capacitance and load current you will have some value of AC ripple on the DC. If nothing is changed except 3 phase to single phase, then you will have more ripple. This should be correctable by adding capacitance if it is a problem.

Diode ratings and line drop are two other factors that must be considered.

If you added capacitors and maybe changed the diodes, then there should not be much difference in spindle capability.

If there are any loads that actually require 3 phase, such as induction motors, then these have to be replaced for single phase.

.

[Geof]

The TL-1 can be run in single or three phase. Do you guys think the output would be less if run on single phase?

If you read the specs on the Haas website it seems that on a 40amp single phase circuti the TL1 can run at full power. When it is on three phase it only needs a 25 amp circuit.

The straight answer to your question I think is no the output is not less on single phase.