Door locks? this is crazy.

[Ydna]

The robotics industry is the same way. Robots used to have two "teach" modes, T1 and T2. T1 was limited to 250 mm/sec and is what you must use while safely inside the work area. But you could still use the T2 100% mode to quickly run through the rest of the program, once you're in a safe area away from the workcell.

Well they removed the T2 mode entirely. It was kinda pointless on the smaller robots but you can imagine on the larger ones it will take literally hours to run through a program at such a slow speed. If I ran through the robot program tending my lathe at 250mm/sec it would probably take a good 5 minutes.

Some robots too have system parameters but they're locked out in just the same way as the Haas control is now. Just like the Haas control they went through a period where everybody could change the parameters, but then they realized it was happening and locked out the ability.

At least with a CNC you can tape a penny over the door switches. Can't do it with all types of equipment...

[valve man]

I got a HAAS ST-30, 2012 model. I need HELP, I am trying to polish my parts with a 500 or 600 rpm and we all know we cant do that with the door open with 50 rpm's. What parameters do I need to change? I have been running cnc lathe for 16 years and a HAAS SL-30 for 4 years. Now we got this ST-30 and and I cant polish my parts on it....

[osphoto]

Mechanical switches are easily "fixed. So fix it. Programming is another issue unto its self.

I agree to having safety switches to a point however, they should be manually allowable for manual over ride. Not all operators are idots.

Guess I'll be upgrading my cnc home machines to a used PRO machine instead of new.

[taylors]

I know this is the lathe forum but we just got a 2012 VF-1 and undid the locks and laid them on top of the machine with the keys in. And then leave the machine in run mode and your good to go. The only time you have to remove the keys is when you do a power up and for us, thats on Monday mornings. Really hasn't been that big of a deal.

[DareBee]

I agree and have my machines dummied.
However if an employee gets hurt in them, the millions of dollars in fines will bankrupt the business. Then there will be the personal lawsuits on top of that.
You simply cannot do one-offs behind a locked door.
There is provision in our safety laws to have an engineer write and approve custom procedures for when and how an override system can be used, that would protect from the fines by safety authority and make it all legal.
The provision is that safeguard measures do not render the equipment inoperable for the process required but still allow maximum employee protection.
A factory worker slamming production parts all day needs these safeties
A tool & die maker doing one-offs has the training and skills to get away with out. Manufacturer has to make the machine to max requirements.

[TerriHarris]

I cannot open the door with the key and the key can only be removed from the lock in the double locked position. At present I have the inside panel off and have R&R'd the lock several times. Totally stumped, any help is appreciated.

[grweldon]

OK, I have to state that when my facility got the first machine with door interlocks (a Fadal mill) it was a pain for the first week, but you learned to function in a way not to operate the machine with the doors open.

The same for the other Fadal, the Doosan 300 lathe and the new Haas ST-10 we ordered. After working with the interlocks on the Doosan for 3 years (can't index the turret with the door open and can't run the spindle at all when it's open), it was only slightly inconvenient to deal with the Haas, which at least has the ability to turn the spindle at some speed with the door open.

With the Haas, it is easy to get around the issue legally, at least ISO certification-wise. Each operator or setup person can be trained as to the safety hazards of working with the door interlocks disabled for setup purposes. Then each operator who is trained can be issued a spare "setup" interlock key (labeled and controlled) to use solely for setting up the machine. After the machine is set up, there is no need for the setup key, it is removed and operation continues without the key.

I am a manufacturing engineer, but I prove out each and every program I write on every single machine I program in the shop. I agree that interlocks provide a bit of inconvenience at the price of increased safety but the inconvenience is minimal once you learn to work with it (not around it).

As far as polishing on a new CNC lathe is concerned, The Haas ST-10 holds tolerances to a tenth and can be programmed to provide finishes in the 16 microinch range. If any new lathe wouldn't do this, I wouldn't buy it. Why would you need to polish? There may be situations, but I would imagine 98% of the time there is no need...

An opinion from one who uses CNC lathes and mills every day...

Oh, and just for a matter of record... I disagree that one-offs can't be done behind locked doors. I do it frequently.

[underthetire]

Check it out on Snopes.com. It's false.

I do agree that they should make it possible to run with the doors open. When I'm running a probe cycle in the program, I like to check the location of the tip when it touches on some very small surfaces that you can't see from outside. Other occasions too.

We just ordered a VM-2. Does this have the same issue?

Yes it will.

Its all in the ANSI B11.22 standards what the builder needs to comply with. In a nutshell, it's not the spindle they are trying to protect against. That is a known hazard, its ANY automatic tool changer. The ANSI also goes on to address different size machines. Very large machines do not require a safety system as found on smaller machines. If there is no automatic tool changer, the regulations are vastly different for guarding. And yes, manual equipment must have chip shields in place for the operator. This includes chuck guards and movable shields on mills/drill presses. Like it or not, its the way it is now. Once you get pass the initial change, and I agree its a PIA, you find ways to work around the door being closed. Once you get comfortable with your modified work technique, its really not that bad.

[double a-ron]

..."Oh, and just for a matter of record... I disagree that one-offs can't be done behind locked doors. I do it frequently."

What happens thousands of spindle hours later when your window looks like that?

[miljnor]

This is all about the litigious nature of the USA. All "safety" measures were made for supposed "good" reasons. But on the other hand, I went to Korea last year and they still have exposed voltage contacts in area's that kids can get to (not toddlers) and when I asked about it they said, well don't touch em you'll be fine. I said "EXACTLY!"

Building codes come about for the same reason. How often exactly does one stick their finger thru a live socket to see how deep it goes? And should we care if that person dies? I don't and if it's someone I know I'll be really sad but damn you really can't protect against stupid, ever...I know I've personally done some really stupid things, but I survived and it's MY fault not some machine manufacturers.

We the users/owner have to pay for this BS, It's just like most laws. They don't effect criminals much just us law abiding folk.

If I'm willing to take the risk then I should be able too. period....It's just like that stupid lawsuit for the NFL right now....gee we didn't know we could get a concussion from running into another persona at 20Mph that weighs upwards of 300+ pounds......sure you didn't, just wanted the money bad enough that the risks weren't that important.

[keebler303]

..."Oh, and just for a matter of record... I disagree that one-offs can't be done behind locked doors. I do it frequently."

What happens thousands of spindle hours later when your window looks like that?

Uh, you replace the windows?

[txcncman]

Uh, you replace the windows?

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