Tool # and Pocket table?


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Thread: Tool # and Pocket table?

  1. #1
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
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    Default Tool # and Pocket table?

    Guys, I know this MM has this table somewhere. The tech showed it to me once. I am unable to find it again.
    Hitting the offsets key twice does not bring it up. I think this is how it was done in the past. I have looked through the manual. Googled. Looked through the onboard help menu's. I am able to find just about everything else that I have looked for, but this one eludes me.

    We will always be running Gcode on this machine. With only a 10 tool changer, pocket numbers will hardly ever match a tool number. I assume I need to correlate these manually?

    Isn't this done in the pockets table/

    Thanks for any help with a newby question.

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    Lee


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    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tool # and Pocket table?

    A couple videos explain to press MDI, then Current Commands, then Page up or down to get to the pocket tool table.
    My panel does nothing when page up or page down are used here. Screen looks different as well.

    Lee


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    Member dcoupar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tool # and Pocket table?

    Forgive my ignorance, but I thought Mini Mills all had the umbrella style toolchanger... tool numbers and pocket numbers always match, don't they?



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    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tool # and Pocket table?

    It does have the 10 tool Umbrella style changer.

    If all I ever had was 10 tools, then I could keep the same 10 tools and have the pockets match. I am starting out with 15 tools. One of those is the Haimer and it will not get stored in the ATC.
    My Pulsar has 25 tools to handle our production products and a few that are for R&D stuff.
    Everything we do will be done in Fusion 360. This is where the tool library is stored and used with the CAM to create the Gcode for the MM. The actual tool number is derived from that library. It's location in the pocket needs to correlate with that number. Hope I am explaining it right.

    Lee


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    Default Re: Tool # and Pocket table?

    On our older MM (2012) its Current Comands then page up. Maybe something is different with the new machines.

    VF2, VF5, ST10, MINIMILL, MINIMILL2, VF3


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    Default Re: Tool # and Pocket table?

    This is from the Haas Mill Operator's Manual 96-8000 Rev R.

    2. Enter Handle Jog mode.

    3. Press the OFSET button. From a fresh Power Up/Restart, press the End key, then the Page Down key once to
    reach the Tool Pocket Table display. From a normal operating state, press Page Up/Down until you reach the Tool
    Pocket Table.



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    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tool # and Pocket table?

    I appreciate the help.
    No joy on this method either.
    The Sales guy said he is swinging by. I have a question in to the Answer Man.
    My manual is 96-8210 Rev A April 2016.

    Lee


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    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tool # and Pocket table?

    Sales guy came by. He called a guy and the guy said that since this is an umbrella changer, the tool numbers have to match the pocket numbers. I call foul or BS or something. Simply edit the tool number in the pocket would allow higher tool numbers to be used and always be the same type of tool from job to job.
    Without this ability, I have to renumber our tools to fit the job. This means the same tool number from job to job will be calling for different tool types. How do you keep track of the tools on what will obviously become a crash happy machine? We only make about 15 parts. 7 tools at most per part. All use some similar tools and some different ones. I would not have bought the machine if I knew this was a limitation.
    How does anyone else utilize such a senseless piece of equipment?
    So this is effectively changing pockets when a Gcode call out is done for a tool and not actually a tool number?

    Lee


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    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tool # and Pocket table?

    Now thinking about this more, since the tools or at least some of them have to be changed between parts and it will not allow me to store any offsets, I have to measure the tool offsets every time we change to a different part?
    One of the biggest reasons I bought this was the automation of a tool changer. It seems with this limitation that we will be spending more time setting tool offsets than manually changing tools with offsets stored in a tool table. Man I sure hope I am wrong about this.

    Lee


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    Default Re: Tool # and Pocket table?

    If you set your tools off a fixed length standard such as a 1-2-3 block, etc. You can use those tools on any part by changing the Z value in G54, G55, etc. And, I believe that you have at least 100 offset registers that you can call any time you use that tool, i.e.

    T05 M06
    G00 G54 X1. Y1. S6000 M03
    G43 Z0.1 H15 M08

    This applies when setting #15 H/T Code Agreement is OFF.



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    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tool # and Pocket table?

    Thanks for that idea. I hadn't thought about that.
    I do think I have found a usable solution. Part of the problem is the old dog, new tricks phrase. I or we are set into the way we use tools across our machines. For instance T6 has always been a standard length 1/4" tool whether on the mill, plasma cutter or router. !/8" tool always T4 and T7 is always a 3/8" etc. For us, that is basically instant tool recognition. For us, since we use relatively few tools, a work around in the Fusion library is to just setup our Haas library with the same tool numbering convention we are used to. Call them out in Cam the same way in each model. Then edit the tool for that process. The tool number actually becomes the machine pocket number and our tool number goes into the description for that tool in that model. Then that comes out in the setup sheets and I can highlight this then. The tool number or pocket number basically becomes the process or operation number under that model too.

    Then when setting up for a job, we pull our tools out of our larger storage and place them into a numbered rack of 10 tools according to the pocket number. Then load and measure those tools into those pockets.
    This method will work, but certainly not with the ease of use that a pocket tool table would have provided. I know the 20 tool umbrella would have helped in this situation. Had I or the saleman had known this limitation, I would have ordered the MM2 or the TMP2 with the 20 tool changer. That would have been able to keep the same tools loaded for most of our parts at least and saved us some setup time. Hindsight, as they say, is 20/20. Shoulda got the 20.

    Lee


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    Default Re: Tool # and Pocket table?

    One possible solution for you is to disable the setting 15 "H and T code agreement" which allows you to associate height offsets 1 through 200 with any tool (1 through 10). However, this setting is disabled by default because it's EXTREMELY easy to cause a crash if accidentally using the wrong H value in your program. The way to check it is to manually verify each tool before running your program, but that would add a good 30+ seconds to the loading process for each tool, every time.

    Back when I had a minimill with 10-station umbrella, we standardized tools 1 through 6 then left the remaining ones open to other tools. That worked for about half of the parts we made. For the other parts we'd just unload everything.



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    Default Re: Tool # and Pocket table?

    Thanks for that. So it seems there are some work arounds. I still say that I saw the tech show me that tool pocket table on this machine. My memory being limited to 1 GB though and I may just be recalling seeing it in videos.

    The more I think about this, the less time it will take to setup each job. Basically we only cut 2 different jobs every week. The other parts are just machined a few at a time as needed. Maybe once a month. We will machine more of those now at a time to have a larger supply and have to setup for those less often.

    Once we become proficient at loading and unloading the carousel using the next tool button when measuring the lengths, it will get pretty quick. Not enough to spend time complaining about. Just a little initial shock and not wanting to learn a new method. At this point in life having yet another one of my assumptions crushed, should be second nature.

    Lee


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    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tool # and Pocket table?

    Well, with a little effort and reworking the drawings and CAM processes, I was able to use just 10 tools to do our normal weekly production setups.

    With these tools in mind, I can machine our other setups too by just swapping out two of the taps and one end mill. Make note of that in the setup sheet and I think we have it figured out.

    Then since X and Y will always be the same for all of our parts, we can setup to use G54 for one setups Part Zero and G55 for the other. Number these 10 tools appropriately and load them in the same numbered pocket and we have it. Very functional easy work around solution for us.

    Lee


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    Default Re: Tool # and Pocket table?

    It must be nice only running about 15 parts! Being a job shop, as we are, changing tools is a daily thing. Honestly, the more you touch off tools, the more efficient you will be with it. Using different work offsets for different parts works great, so long as you only have the 15 or so parts you currently make, and will save a ton of time on setups. Just be glad you did not get a machine with the side-mount tool changer. That is completely confusing the first time you use it. The umbrella tool changer keeps tool 1 in pocket 1. In the SMTC, tool 1 might be in pocket 1 thru 24. And every time you run another part, it will move to a different pocket, even though it is still tool 1.

    If you want to save some setup time, you could record the tool offset and save it for the next time you use that tool. Just put the tool in the spindle, open the offsets page, go to that tool, and enter in the value previously recorded. Then you only have to touch it off when the tool wears out or breaks.

    Good luck to you with your new machine! Our Mini is 11 years old and counting, and still a great machine!

    Mike




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    Default Re: Tool # and Pocket table?

    I have a 2006 SMM in my garage that I use mostly for doing one-offs (favors for friends, stuff for myself, the occasional job).

    I *always* unload the tool changer when I'm done with a job. I just keep a notepad next to the machine with the length written down on the common tools that I typically do not unload out of their holder. If one or more of those go back into the umbrella the next time I run the machine, I either measure (very fast) or just enter the number on the tool offset page (also very fast).

    I know my Renishaw probe length, so typically leave that length in offset #10 since it's not that often I use all 10 positions. That lets me MDI to position 10, put the probe in the spindle and touch off the Z height on the part which takes care of G54 (or 55, or whatever).

    I guess that every one of us tends to come up with workarounds that .... "work for me", and ultimately it ends up being pretty darn quick once we standardize on a system that makes sense. It sounds like LeeWay got there pretty quickly too.

    PM



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    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tool # and Pocket table?

    Thanks, Guys.
    I have not even been able to install the Orange vise yet. We had to finish insulating and enclosing that end of the shop. Installing a heat pump, some more lighting and new wiring etc.
    Then it seems every other machine I own has required my attention and new parts ordered. Something else I will mention not for sympathy, but just as an odd thing. My step son lost his father about 6 months ago. I lost mine about two weeks ago. My new employee lost his over the weekend. Then we have been training a part time girl and she will likely loose hers very soon. All to the big C. Just really odd. All of us knew it was coming, so was at least a little prepared for it.

    Lee


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