Advice on Purchasing a Used VF-2

[kunz82414]

Hello,

I have found a 1996 HAAS VF-2 with a 4th axis and 4000 hours on it that I am interested in purchasing. This will be my first CNC mill if I make the purchase.

I would really appreciate any advice on looking at the machine regarding issues to look out for prior to making an offer. I would like to use it to mill small parts out of steel and aluminum; items similar to dirtbike triple clamps, sprockets, lever mounts. I will need to tap smallish items like #8 and #10 taps and 5mm size taps. Also cut male threads in these sizes.

Are these considered good machines?
Will I be limited with capabilities due to its age?
What is a reasonable purchase price if it is in good shape?

Thank you for your time.

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[hoecken]

Why don't you read about all the complaints about HAAS machines on this forum. If that doesn't scare you then you deserve what you are getting.

[dertsap]

4000 hrs is peanuts . If it was in a shop that run 24/7 then it wouldn't have run half a year . The only limitations that I've found with the vf2 is that they aren't as rigid as a mori or other jap machines . I've been working for nearly 8 yrs with a vf2 and a bank of super mini's ( not to mention the lathes) and they are all reliable machines . In that time I've seen less than 1/2 dozen belt changes and 1 new spindle which cost about 3k for a mill that pulled in millions in it's lifetime , and 3 tool carousels ( at least one was my fault) . Biggest gripes that I have is that they are terribly designed for drainage and containing the coolant . And they are bad for tools sticking in the spindle , I know that other guys have different experiences with this but I've experienced this with every one of the mills in our shop that have the tool carousel
First thing that I'd be wanting to check is if it has the options on it , rigid tapping , high speed machining and macro are the first to come to mind . You can get away without the later 2 but they sure are nice to have

[hanermo]

Its the best value VMC available, globally, bar none.
It retains its value the best.
It has 100% parts support for every one ever made.

Parts are cheap to very cheap re: other major brands.

Your parts are very easy to do, and it will have no problem making them.
100k+ VF series machines have been made (200k plus total haas machines iirc)...

Manuals are free online from haas for older machines, including repair.

The Haas wins hands-down for any major brand made today in cost/features/support for old/older machines.
The only comparable, sometimes cheaper, option is an old Fadal.

Fadal is a Defunct brand, but they are similar to older Haas, cheap, reliable machines- and many aftermarket support and parts suppliers exist (US).
An old Fadal might be, sometimes, cheaper.

Haas is the only machine guaranteed to keep its value.
This is a major reason in its favour.
The old machine will likely sell for same or more, 1-2 years from now, if it is as You imply cheap and the 4th axis works (its quite valuable).

Better machines exist, but for much more money, and parts costs are outrageous.
A Mori spindle might cost 12.000 $, + 8000$ to install.
A Haas spindle, 3000-5000$, plus 1000$ install, at most.
Manuals ... not available, or 1500$. Etc...

This is for new only...
In new machines it is more complicated.
Low-end DMGs are ok (not great) technically and similar prices - user experiences vary, but they are sold a lot, and all modern machines work better than needed for 99.x% of uses.
The cheaper brothers are close in $ on some models, and are by any nr of reports (very) good.

Disc:
I used to work for Haas here as a sales manager in my country a few years back - so I have looked at 2000+ machines.
No connection for 3+ years.

[D.D.Machine]

Haas quit supporting any of the controls made before about 2002 or 2003 .... meaning if the control goes down on that age machine your having to but a new control, new CRT and a new spindle drive to match the control ,, around 10 to 15K to even get the machine back running ... """"READ BEFORE """ you buy a used or new haas .... Haas customer service has gone to crap .

[eaglemike]

My 1998 VF-2 has been my most reliable machine. It's true that performance per dollar, for what you are going to make, it would be hard to top.
It is also true that if the main board goes down, it will cost $10k (more or less) to upgrade, as Haas is no longer supporting the main control board. You might be able to run for 20 years without worrying about this.

[dertsap]

There's always going to be the what if factor on anything used . With only 4000 hrs on it i doubt the control board will be cooked on it any time soon if ever .

[kunz82414]

Thank you everyone for the responses and input. I am seriously considering this machine and although there are some risks involved, I am leaning more towards making the purchase than not.

[dertsap]

do you have any idea why the mill has so low of hours on it ? If it's an r&d type of shop then I can see it but if it's a production shop then it would be a huge red flag .

[kunz82414]

It is a small shop that builds custom motosport items. It does not run around the clock for 2 shifts in a large operation. I think they have 2 or 3 machines they use depending on which one suits their specific need for any given item.

[Machineit]

I really don't think you can go wrong. Just check it out well and make sure everything works okay. Make sure the spindle is not noisy in high at 7500 rpm and in low gear at say 1000 rpm. Check it all, coolant pump, rigid tap (is a must), tool changer etc.

I have a 96 and a 97 that just keep on making parts and were paid for many many years ago. You can't beat not having payments.

By the way, the only time I have ever had a board failure was on a VF-1 in 1998 that got hit by lightning. Other than that, one spindle drive failure and that is all in over 20 years.

Mike

[erikfriesen]

Plan on repairs. The most important tool is a dial indicator.

Things I learned the hard way..

Push and pull on the spindle, see if the bearings have any preload left. It shouldn't move at all.

Push and pull on anything that can move, see what kind of flexing and movement there is with proper indication. (Should have servo power for this one)

Check low and high gear change.

Look over the tool changer real careful, wiggle it, make sure it looks level. The four wheels the carriage rides on should be tight so it doesn't rock. If it has been crashed hard, the top wheels mounts will get trashed and you'll need a new carriage.

Check tool changes at 4 90 deg points, make sure the tool fingers hit right. Cracked plates will make it unlevel.

It won't be perfect, but at least know what you are getting.

[JFettig]

Keep in mind - if the controller has ever been updated - the clock has been reset.

Like others have said, dead controller on an old machine = lots of expense vs slightly newer ones.