Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues


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Thread: Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues

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    Default Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues

    I just purchased a 2006 VM2. I really like the machine but I am having some serious issues trying to rigid tap. I just threw the tap in a collet holder, it's a M10x1.0. Here is my code:

    G00G90G54X0.Y0.S1000M03;
    G43H03Z0.1;
    G84Z-.62R.01F39.37;

    It tears the threads horribly (see attached picture). I decided to throw the tap in my manual lathe and tap the part and it comes out nicely so I know it's not the tap. Rigid tapping is enabled per the parameters but I am unsure whether the G84 command is "RIGID TAPPING". I setup some production Mori's earlier this year and I had to run an M29 command to get "RIGID" tapping turned on. I've ordered some floating tap holders as I assume this will mitigate the problem, but am interested why I can't rigid tap now. Any advise would be appreciated.

    Regards,

    SeanRigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues-m10-tap-jpg

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    Default Re: Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues

    We have 2005 VF1 and a 2013 VF2SS and we program it just as you have done without any extra information. Although I would leave more than 0.01 for the R value. I usually leave around 5mm (0.2") to ensure the tap is running at the right speed/feed and to make sure it would run out correctly on return.


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    Default Re: Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues

    That was a typo, it is R.1 not R.01.

    Do you run taps in rigid holders or floating?



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    Default Re: Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues

    We have always used rigid holders. I have only ever used floating holders in a lathe just in case the tool is slightly off centre. Shouldn't be an issue on a mill though obviously.


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    s00073055
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    Default Re: Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by smcdonn View Post
    That was a typo, it is R.1 not R.01.

    Do you run taps in rigid holders or floating?
    hello
    This is an extract from my program that I am using at the moment on my vfo my rigid tap is in aluminum i am doing alot of holes m4 and m5 try reducing your speed and increasing your feed.hope this helps

    '(OP 3 TAP HOLES TOOL 4 M4 X 0.7P)
    '(TOOL DIAMETER 4, HOLE DIAMETERS 4 - 5)
    T04 M06 (M4 X 0.7P)
    (TAP HOLES)
    G00 G54 X0. Y11. S400 M03
    G43 Z10. H04 M8
    G84 G98 Z-24. R1. F280.



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    Quote Originally Posted by s00073055 View Post
    hello
    This is an extract from my program that I am using at the moment on my vfo my rigid tap is in aluminum i am doing alot of holes m4 and m5 try reducing your speed and increasing your feed.hope this helps

    '(OP 3 TAP HOLES TOOL 4 M4 X 0.7P)
    '(TOOL DIAMETER 4, HOLE DIAMETERS 4 - 5)
    T04 M06 (M4 X 0.7P)
    (TAP HOLES)
    G00 G54 X0. Y11. S400 M03
    G43 Z10. H04 M8
    G84 G98 Z-24. R1. F280.

    Maybe I'm losing it or I haven't had enough coffee, but your speeds and feeds don't jive for that pitch tap. Feed of 280???? Please let me know if this is a typo.



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    s00073055
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    Default Re: Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by smcdonn View Post
    Maybe I'm losing it or I haven't had enough coffee, but your speeds and feeds don't jive for that pitch tap. Feed of 280???? Please let me know if this is a typo.
    No mistake 200 pieces Aluminum 6 holes in each = 1200 treads perfect and no breakage of taps it is up to yourself your feed for steel is probably correct if it has come from a software cadcam package but I would question your spindle speed of 1000
    Good Luck

    PS I copied and pasted the code from my program no typo



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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by s00073055 View Post
    No mistake 200 pieces Aluminum 6 holes in each = 1200 treads perfect and no breakage of taps it is up to yourself your feed for steel is probably correct if it has come from a software cadcam package but I would question your spindle speed of 1000
    Good Luck

    PS I copied and pasted the code from my program no typo
    I originally ran a speed of 300 on the spindle. No difference in thread quality. Sorry what I was explaining was that your speeds and feeds weren't in sync for that pitch tap. Please correct me if I am wrong but a .7 metric tap is 36.28 TPI. Speed of 400 divided by 36.28 equals F11.02.....right? Or am I out in left field on his one?



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    Default Re: Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues

    Have you tried peck tapping it? Cutting oil instead of coolant? slower rpm?



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    Default Re: Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues

    I haven't attempted a peck tap. I remember reading something about a parameter you could enable to peck tap.

    You have a sample code how you would peck tap? Or would you just run back to back G84 cycles with different depths?



  11. #11
    s00073055
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    Default Re: Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by smcdonn View Post
    Maybe I'm losing it or I haven't had enough coffee, but your speeds and feeds don't jive for that pitch tap. Feed of 280???? Please let me know if this is a typo.
    I was checking what my cadcam package was doing i pick the spindle speed and the software gives you the feed rate it is s400 X 0.7 tread pitch =F 280 for the m4 operation

    '(OP 3 TAP HOLES TOOL 4 M4 X 0.7P)
    '(TOOL DIAMETER 4, HOLE DIAMETERS 4 - 5)
    T04 M06 (M4 X 0.7P)
    (TAP HOLES)
    G00 G54 X0. Y11. S400 M03
    G43 Z10. H04 M8
    G84 G98 Z-24. R1. F280

    This is the m5 operation this time s400 X 0.8p = F320

    '(OP 3 TAP HOLES TOOL 5 M5 X 0.8P)
    '(TOOL DIAMETER 5, HOLE DIAMETERS 5)
    T05 M06 (M5 X 0.8P)
    (TAP HOLES)
    G00 G54 X0. Y24. S400 M03
    G43 Z10. H05 M8
    G84 G98 Z-24. R1. F320.

    your not going to like this but here goes

    I think for your M10 X 1.0p It should be for example s300 X 1.0p =F 300

    I only have a M10 X 1.5p choice in the software I am using and I was getting for s300 X 1.5p = F450 form the software.



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    Default Re: Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues

    Smcdonn
    You are programming in inches and s00073055 is programming in metric. F11.02x25.4=279.908 so 280 is a good feed when feeding in mm per minute.

    For the haas I have never had any luck using anything but whole numbers for feed. Try 254 rpm and 10ipm and see if that helps. If you want to go faster try 1016rpm and 40ipm. Also check that parameter 130 is set to 1. That is the tap retract speed. If I set it any higher I can't trust that the tap won't get broken. Also if you want to peck tap you will need to set parameter 133 to on. That is for repeat rigid tapping. Really better to just turn it on and leave it on. It won't hurt anything. If you peck tap there is no canned cycle for that so you would just copy and paste your code changing your z depth each time till you reach bottom.

    Ben



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    Default Re: Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by bhurts View Post
    Smcdonn
    You are programming in inches and s00073055 is programming in metric. F11.02x25.4=279.908 so 280 is a good feed when feeding in mm per minute.

    For the haas I have never had any luck using anything but whole numbers for feed. Try 254 rpm and 10ipm and see if that helps. If you want to go faster try 1016rpm and 40ipm. Also check that parameter 130 is set to 1. That is the tap retract speed. If I set it any higher I can't trust that the tap won't get broken. Also if you want to peck tap you will need to set parameter 133 to on. That is for repeat rigid tapping. Really better to just turn it on and leave it on. It won't hurt anything. If you peck tap there is no canned cycle for that so you would just copy and paste your code changing your z depth each time till you reach bottom.

    Ben
    Yea I noticed he was in metric. I can tell my tap retract speed is much faster than the tapping, I'll put that back to 1 then try tapping at various speeds. If all else fails my floating tap head should be in any day.



  14. #14
    s00073055
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    Default Re: Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by smcdonn View Post
    Yea I noticed he was in metric. I can tell my tap retract speed is much faster than the tapping, I'll put that back to 1 then try tapping at various speeds. If all else fails my floating tap head should be in any day.
    I am wondering would it be possible that there is a setting on that machine set to metric instead of imperial have a look at setting 9 see what it is it may be somewhere else on your machine, the reason I am saying that is if i convert your original feed rate to metric F39.37 X 25.4 = F999.998. and keep your speed S1000 so S1000 and F1000 for the M10 X 1.0 tap that would work on my machine. I hope you get to the bottom of this problem.



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    Member Machineit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues

    Not sure what synchronization method your machine uses, mine had the belt and sprockets with an encoder. I was breaking some small taps and getting some bad threads and found the pulleys were badly worn and were actually skipping teeth when reversing while retracting.

    Go to the top of you machine and remove your filter and look to see if you have the belt encoder. If you do, they could be worn.

    Mike

    P.S.: I tap everything up to 1/2" at 1000 rpm.

    M

    Two Haas VF-2's, Haas HA5C, Haas HRT-9, Hardinge CHNC 1, Bother HS-300 Wire EDM, BobCAD V23, BobCAD V28


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    Default Re: Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Machineit View Post
    Not sure what synchronization method your machine uses, mine had the belt and sprockets with an encoder. I was breaking some small taps and getting some bad threads and found the pulleys were badly worn and were actually skipping teeth when reversing while retracting.

    Go to the top of you machine and remove your filter and look to see if you have the belt encoder. If you do, they could be worn.

    Mike

    P.S.: I tap everything up to 1/2" at 1000 rpm.

    M

    I figured out the problem, guy before me had tap retract speed at 4. I think it was damaging the threads on the retract. I set it to 1 and peck tapped the part at 100rpms and threads look great. I'll start speeding the tap up incrementally now! Thanks guys



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    Default Re: Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues

    Have you tried a roll tap?


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Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues

Rigid Tapping in 2006 VM2 Issues