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Thread: Haas S5C Indexer motor

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    Thumbs up Haas S5C Indexer motor

    I`m tring to find the specs for a servo motor to fit an S5C indexer controller I recently purchased.
    The unit has a 14 pins motor connector in the back for The Motor supply/feedback (motor power Blk. and yellow) plus 6 leads for the encoder, two Yellow leads and two more leads ( Purple and gray ) and ground of course.
    I removed the top cover and measured the voltage at the motor supply leads , 172 VDC. As the cycle start button is depressed, the same voltage is transfered to the output leads, and the display changes to "01 no Ho"
    The question/s is :
    What type of motor do I need for this Unit?
    Encoder,.. can I use any resolution, and than easely change parameters at the controller?
    Encoder pinout A-a, B-b, Z-z to match the 14 pin AMP socket
    I understand there must be a home position sensor , possibly the purple and gray set? , is it a magnetic pickup or a closed contact?


    Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks a lot
    A.M. in Atlanta GA

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    060122-1237 EST USA

    Andrew M.:

    I can not really follow your question(s).

    Do you think you have a bad motor?

    Is the motor a DC brush type? Your description may imply this.

    The following two questions assume nothing is connected to the motor electrically or mechanically.

    If DC brush type, then what does an ohmmeter read for armature resistance?

    Also if DC brush type, then assuming you are correct on BLK and YEL being the armature wires, then apply 12 VDC thru a 5 Ohm 50 W resistor to the armature and measure armature voltage, and observe whether the motor rotates. What are the results?

    Given that the motor or its encoder has a fault, then it probably can be repaired.

    .



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    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    A.M. As Gar mentioned it looks like it may be a DC motor and unless something very drastic has happened to it, they can usually be repaired, the encoder resolution can often be got from off the glass scale, but it might be very unlikely both motor and encoder were defective.
    The message you get probabally indicates the unit is not homed.
    Any sensor that may be on there for this is just to initially position it to an approximate home posn. and then the motor will continue until the Z marker pulse is seen.
    Check things like brushes if DC motor.
    BTW does the motor/encoder show any make/model?
    Al.

    Last edited by Al_The_Man; 01-22-2006 at 02:32 PM.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design (Skype Avail).

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    Gar and Al,
    As stated, " I`m tring to find the specs for a servo motor to fit an S5C indexer controller"
    I do not have a any rotary device, but just the controller box.
    What i`m trying to find, is a commercial servo motor ( DC) that can be driven by the S5C indexer Controllers that I own.
    All my readings were made at the 14 pins amphenol connector inside the controller unit ( Color coding, voltage to the motor )
    The PCB has clear labels on the terminations for the motor ( + Yellow , - Blk )
    But the encoder, with the six wires ??? and power to the encoder ???
    And Than the home sensor, were does it hook up, ( Purple and Gray ? ) How is it, an induction coil or a switch ?
    In short, what will solve all the problems will be to know is someone in this excellent forum has ever adapted an S5C controller to any servomotor other than Haas, or has the pinout description for the 14 or 17 pins Amphenol connector which is the connector on which the rotating device ( Rotary table, Collet indexer/s) is plug in to it.

    Thak You for Your reply
    A.M.



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    060122-2133 EST USA

    Andrew:

    Sorry I did not understand you had a controller, but no motor.

    It may not be easy to directly obtain the specifications. I believe HAAS has used some ElectroCraft motors. ElectroCraft is now part of Reliance.

    It is now clear you have a controller for a DC motor. I will look at our unit tommrow and see what ID is there.

    .



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    060123-1639 EST USA

    Andrew M.:

    I look at our 5C. The motor is in a special enclosure, totally sealed, and the only outside marking is HAAS. There are 17 male pins on the A/N (MS) connector.

    Our Indexing Head User Manual has very little information on the motor, and none on the encoder.

    The motor is a 1/3 HP DC servo. Gear ratio 60/1 self locking with preload. Output 30 #-ft. Resolution 0.0015 degrees. This means 240,000 steps for the output 5C. Thus the encoder is at least 4000 steps.

    Maximum feed is 300 deg/sec, so motor rpm for this is (300/360)*60*60 = 3000 rpm. Thus, you need a DC servo motor of about 1/3 HP @ 3000 rpm and at about 170 V or whatever is the loaded voltage of the motor control.

    We do not have an indexer box, but run directly from a HAAS fourth axis.

    (060124-1212 edit)
    The encoder is probably comparable to the encoders used on X, Y, and Z in a HAAS mill.
    ( end edit)

    .

    Last edited by gar; 01-24-2006 at 01:13 PM.


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    Gar,
    Thank You for Your help, as soon as I get the assembly working, I`ll post again with all the info.

    A.M.



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    I've just found this thread whilst looking for the same information.
    Haas UK were good enough to tell me that the older brushed motor type of 'black box' controller was designed to be used with either the
    MAG #500280159
    or EG&G #3509
    motors.
    Unfortunately I haven't been able to find specs for these.
    Any suggestions where to find them?
    Thanks
    Tim



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    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Leech
    MAG #500280159
    or EG&G #3509
    motors.
    Unfortunately I haven't been able to find specs for these.
    Any suggestions where to find them?
    Thanks
    Tim
    EG&G 3509 is identicall to a DC motor made by CMC (I think one makes the other), CMC same #, I have the specs somewhere if you cannot find them.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design (Skype Avail).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man
    EG&G 3509 is identicall to a DC motor made by CMC (I think one makes the other), CMC same #, I have the specs somewhere if you cannot find them.
    Al.
    I've found those, thanks for that.
    I believe these controllers ran more than one size of motor, so if anyone can come up with info for the other model (MAG 500280159) I'll be very pleased. Do MAG still exist?
    The chap at Haas said they ran 3 different motors, but only sent me those two numbers. I believe the same controller ran bigger indexers than the 5C. Mine came off a special grinding machine, I have no clues as to what the indexer actually was.

    Many thanks
    Tim



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    Default HAAS DC Brush Motor

    Has anyone made any progress on this?
    There are two types of HAAS brush indexer motor connections, one with 14 pins and 1 with 17 pins.

    If the pinouts of the motors are known then you should be able to interface any brush DC servo with the HAAS 4AXCB or regular brush servo drive.

    This is evidently hard info to get without taking apart one of the brush units.

    for the brush DC motor there will be two armature wires and maybe a chassis ground.
    For optical type TTL encoders there will be two encoder power lines and several channel quadrature lines depending on the encoder.. Most encoders also have an index pulse line for 1 count per rev. 8 wires plus ground or shield.

    The other lines would be home switch, and relay activation lines for the air brake.

    Can anyone offer more info about this? I am trying to interface a Yuasa rotary to the HAAS 4AXCB.

    Thanks



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    060902-1028 EST USA

    Andrew M. and Tim Leech:

    In the HAAS mill manual in Electrical Diagrams on a January 15, 1996 96-8000 p328 page with 6/95 page 15 on the drawing is shown the diagram for the A AXIS. This is for the 17 pin connector.

    You can get the mill manual from the HAAS web site.

    The encoder and Hall switch are 5 V powered. The encoder has three channels all with balanced line drivers. The motor is a DC brush type. There is an overheat switch. Only rotary tables have the air brake.

    You can more or less use any DC brush type motor you want that has the correct voltage rating, and is not too large. There may be some performance problems with a non-standard motor, but generally all permanent magnet DC brush type motors have the same theory of operation. The differences that may cause the greatest problems are inertia and inductance. Certainly at low velocities you should have no problems.

    You should be able to find some data that would allow you to calculate the resulution of the encoder even if you can not get that information directly.

    If the maximum output voltage of the controller is 170 V look for a motor of this rating or maybe up to 220 V. Note: that RPM is directly proportional to armature voltage as a first approximation for a motor with fixed field excitation (a permanent magnet motor is of that type).

    .



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