Haas taping problem


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    Default Haas taping problem

    What would cause a 5/8" tap to go down and stop half way down taping a through hole, then after we have hit feed hold and reset, it is just sitting there. We open the door to figure out what were going to do to get it out (before I had bypassed the door lock) I get the tool to loosen the collet nut so we will be able to raise the z up and not ruin the part. Pull on the wrench and after I start pulling the spindle spins and bangs my hand with the wrench and throws it across the room then stops again? how dangerous is it when the spindle can spin with the door open and after the reset button was pressed?

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    Last edited by Haassucks.com; 06-11-2012 at 01:39 PM. Reason: spelling
    Haas ended up taking care of our problems.


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    I think you should read your manual. You hit Reset when a tapping cycle was active. I believe when this cycle is active the machine completes the cycle then responds to the Reset.

    You should have pushed Estop before getting into the machine. This would have disabled all the drives. Your machine was simply stalled but under power and as soon as you loosened the collet it was able to complete the cycle and stop.

    Incidentally if you have the 10,000rpm direct drive spindle, in other words no gearbox you were pushing it trying to drive a 5/8" tap. These machines do not have a lot of torque and it is easy to stall the spindle on taps larger than 1/2" especially NC threads. The way to tap larger sizes is Repeat Rigid Tapping and just peck in 2 threads at a time or less.

    An open mind is a virtue...so long as all the common sense has not leaked out.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Geof View Post
    I think you should read your manual. You hit Reset when a tapping cycle was active. I believe when this cycle is active the machine completes the cycle then responds to the Reset.

    You should have pushed Estop before getting into the machine. This would have disabled all the drives. Your machine was simply stalled but under power and as soon as you loosened the collet it was able to complete the cycle and stop.

    Incidentally if you have the 10,000rpm direct drive spindle, in other words no gearbox you were pushing it trying to drive a 5/8" tap. These machines do not have a lot of torque and it is easy to stall the spindle on taps larger than 1/2" especially NC threads. The way to tap larger sizes is Repeat Rigid Tapping and just peck in 2 threads at a time or less.
    we have the 30hp 12,000 rpm spindle and haas tells us it will tap 1" just fine in steel.

    I assumed the feed hold then pressing the reset would have made it not try to spin. Haas did tell me that was a flaw in the way the program works and that they are trying to fix it because they have heard of this happening before.

    sometimes the e-stop does not stop it also, I have hit the e-stop when it was running and the screen was black and I kept hitting buttons trying to get it to stop including the e-stop then finally I just shut the power down to the machine to get it to stop. so next time I will probably just shut off the power to the machine.

    Haas ended up taking care of our problems.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Haassucks.com View Post
    we have the 30hp 12,000 rpm spindle and haas tells us it will tap 1" just fine in steel.

    I assumed the feed hold then pressing the reset would have made it not try to spin. Haas did tell me that was a flaw in the way the program works and that they are trying to fix it because they have heard of this happening before.
    You are so full of S**t. No, you can't interrupt a tapping cycle with a feed hold and you never will be able to. It will not stop until the cycle has finished and Haas will never change that, or ever say it is a problem.

    [/QUOTE]sometimes the e-stop does not stop it also, I have hit the e-stop when it was running and the screen was black and I kept hitting buttons trying to get it to stop including the e-stop then finally I just shut the power down to the machine to get it to stop. so next time I will probably just shut off the power to the machine.[/QUOTE]

    Again, you are soooo full of S++T. I would love to be the lawyer who gets you on the stand for your law suit, if you even have one. God, probably the first time in my life I've wanted to be a lawyer.

    You are nothing but a little sniveling cry baby. Sell those machine and get yourself another brand. I have seen and met people like you. I do not want to again.

    Get a life and take responsibility for your own actions. You are one of those who wish to blame everyone else for what you do wrong.

    The more you post here, the more you will show us just how ignorant you are.

    Two Haas VF-2's, Haas HA5C, Haas HRT-9, Hardinge CHNC 1, Bother HS-300 Wire EDM, BobCAD V23, BobCAD V28


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    I did not say the feed hold stopped the machine, learn how to read. the piece of **** machine stopped, i will repeat for the stupid people, the machine stopped itself not hitting the feed hold. and haas did say it was a problem that when the machine has stopped in a tapping cycle that at anytime it could take off again even if you hit feed hold, reset, and have the doors open.

    if you bought a brand new machine and the first thing you tried to machine was a circle that was .625 and it made it an oval .007 out would you be mad?
    not counting all the other problems...

    Last edited by Haassucks.com; 06-10-2012 at 07:43 PM.
    Haas ended up taking care of our problems.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Haassucks.com View Post
    I did not say the feed hold stopped the machine, learn how to read. the piece of **** machine stopped, i will repeat for the stupid people, the machine stopped itself not hitting the feed hold. and haas did say it was a problem that when the machine has stopped in a tapping cycle that at anytime it could take off again even if you hit feed hold, reset, and have the doors open.

    if you bought a brand new machine and the first thing you tried to machine was a circle that was .625 and it made it an oval .007 out would you be mad?
    not counting all the other problems...

    It'd difficult to fully understand what happened in your case, but Geof's theory is one I would go with also. However, if it stalled then it shoud have kicked up an alarm along with it. My bet is Haas misunderstood your situation.

    Feed hold does not stop a tapping cycle and Haas has written the software to prevent such action. It will finish the tap cycle then it will execute the feed hold, reset, or etc.

    E-Stop should ALWAYS disable the machine no matter what state it is in or what is going on. That is the whole purpose of the button. If it does not do this then then the machine should not be operated until it does. IMO



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    Quote Originally Posted by haastec View Post
    .... However, if it stalled then it shoud have kicked up an alarm along with it.....

    ..... My bet is Haas misunderstood your situation......
    I have stalled the spindle several times being too ambitious when tapping and have never had an alarm probably because I hit Estop very quickly.

    What happens is the spindle load goes into the red and the machine just sits there not doing anything. Probably if you waited long enough it would give a spindle overload alarm.

    I doubt Haas is alone in the misunderstooding.

    An open mind is a virtue...so long as all the common sense has not leaked out.


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    Quote Originally Posted by haastec View Post
    It'd difficult to fully understand what happened in your case, but Geof's theory is one I would go with also. However, if it stalled then it shoud have kicked up an alarm along with it. My bet is Haas misunderstood your situation.

    Feed hold does not stop a tapping cycle and Haas has written the software to prevent such action. It will finish the tap cycle then it will execute the feed hold, reset, or etc.

    E-Stop should ALWAYS disable the machine no matter what state it is in or what is going on. That is the whole purpose of the button. If it does not do this then then the machine should not be operated until it does. IMO
    I will say again the feed hold did not stop it, I know that it will not stop when you hit the feed hold. I did not hit the feed hold untill after it had stopped. Then I hit feed hold and reset several times before trying to release the collet. There was no alarm, and now that I think about that I'm pretty sure that I did hit the e-stop since the feed hold would not have done anything. I will go back and see if I can see it in my video.

    Another thing to note if this makes a difference, we always turn the coolant off and hit feed hold before the tap makes it to the tap cycle. Then blow all the coolant off the part and out of the hole then put tapping fluid in the hole and on the tap before it tries to tap a hole.

    Haas ended up taking care of our problems.


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    Thanks for making me laugh your funny.

    In the future don't put wrenches on a spindle when the machine is on.

    It's not a manual machine with a hand break



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    That machine is definitely jacked up...the screen problem makes me think there's more wrong with it than could be repaired on site.

    Not sure of the purpose of "has anyone seen this" posts, but hopefully you do enough *****ing that they'll swap it or money back. Problems as severe as this show up within the first few weeks on the new machines, caused by assembly problems etc.

    That said, I'm signing the dotted line for a new machine in a few days and have no compulsions against it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by a1diesinker View Post
    Thanks for making me laugh your funny.

    In the future don't put wrenches on a spindle when the machine is on.

    It's not a manual machine with a hand break
    Now that you say that it reminds me of another thing we have been told by Haas. We ask if there was any kind of break that you could hit a button and have the spindle not turn. They told us that if you hit the orient spindle button the spindle will orient and then not turn. This is wrong also. Do not try to turn it, it will hold for a second then spin.

    Haas ended up taking care of our problems.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Haassucks.com View Post
    I will say again the feed hold did not stop it, I know that it will not stop when you hit the feed hold. I did not hit the feed hold untill after it had stopped. Then I hit feed hold and reset several times before trying to release the collet.
    I did not say you pressed feed hold to stop the spindle. I was merely making it clear how feed hold interacts with the tapping cycle to expand on what Geof posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haassucks.com View Post
    Now that you say that it reminds me of another thing we have been told by Haas. We ask if there was any kind of break that you could hit a button and have the spindle not turn. They told us that if you hit the orient spindle button the spindle will orient and then not turn. This is wrong also. Do not try to turn it, it will hold for a second then spin.
    No, you are wrong. You asked if there was a "break" to have the spindle not turn. They told you spindle orientate will orientate and then not turn, which it does as stated. However, it is not LOCKED like you were probably implying.

    Another case of miscommunication!



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    Quote Originally Posted by Ydna View Post
    That machine is definitely jacked up...the screen problem makes me think there's more wrong with it than could be repaired on site.

    Not sure of the purpose of "has anyone seen this" posts, but hopefully you do enough *****ing that they'll swap it or money back. Problems as severe as this show up within the first few weeks on the new machines, caused by assembly problems etc.

    That said, I'm signing the dotted line for a new machine in a few days and have no compulsions against it.
    I have recieved a few phone calls about this and now have found out that there are two other haas in this area that had problems in the first few weeks also. So it seems like if it works fine for the first month or two then it will not have problems. Engines are the same way, if it starts and runs more then a few minuites then it was probably built and tuned right.

    The machine I used up in canada was a Haas vf-4 and it was built in 1998 and still has the original spindle in it. And he has been as hard as you can possibly be on a machine. That is the reason we bought this machine and did not even call or go look at any other machines. But I guess they either built them better then or we got a lemon. Here is a pic of that machine.

    .

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Haas taping problem-vf-4-jpg  
    Haas ended up taking care of our problems.


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    I don't see a machine in the picture.



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    Quote Originally Posted by haastec View Post
    I did not say you pressed feed hold to stop the spindle. I was merely making it clear how feed hold interacts with the tapping cycle to expand on what Geof posted.

    No, you are wrong. You asked if there was a "break" to have the spindle not turn. They told you spindle orientate will orientate and then not turn, which it does as stated. However, it is not LOCKED like you were probably implying.

    Another case of miscommunication!
    No, you are wrong. They did tell me that it would not turn. I told them that I wanted to be able to undo the drill chuck while it was still in the machine to change drills quick, so they also knew why I wanted to know. Haas also told me that it would hold and not spin up to the point of 70 ftlbs.( I'm guessing that is the strength of the motor?) And that if it was not strong enough to hold that I would be able to turn it but it would just be trying to get back to center and would not spin. When you do that and it turns past about 1/8 rotation it makes two revolutions then back to center. Maybe for the encoder to find out where its at?

    I saw a guy do this hundreds of times that has ran a machine for twenty years so I thought this was a normal thing people do, I dont need to be told how stupid it is to do anything in the machine when there is power hooked to it. Now that I know how the machines can move I am scared every time I have to change a tool with the power on, if there was a way to change the tools out without grabbing it in the spindle then I would buy that option. Something like the Makino has.

    Haas ended up taking care of our problems.


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    Quote Originally Posted by extanker59 View Post
    I don't see a machine in the picture.
    Maybe he was referring to the blond stripper. Her stage name is La Machine.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Haassucks.com View Post
    ....... They did tell me that it would not turn. I told0 them that I wanted to be able to undo the drill chuck while it was still in the machine to change drills quick, so they also knew why I wanted to know. Haas also told me that it would hold and not spin up to the point of 70 ftlbs.( I'm guessing that is the strength of the motor?) And that if it was not strong enough to hold that I would be able to turn it but it would just be trying to get back to center and would not spin. When you do that and it turns past about 1/8 rotation it makes two revolutions then back to center. Maybe for the encoder to find out where its at?......
    You refer to them and they and I guess you mean the people at your Haas dealer, not people at Haas Automation in Oxnard.

    I think you have got caught like a lot of people trusting that the staff at the dealer know what they are talking about. They should never have told you it was okay to loosen anything while it is in the spindle. After there is a sticker on the machine which tells you not to do this. (At least on my machines there is.)

    You are quite correct about the spindle doing a turn or two if you have it 'locked' in orientation. I found this the hard way with a lathe spindle and I think it is the encoder loses position and spins to pick it up again.

    An open mind is a virtue...so long as all the common sense has not leaked out.


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    Quote Originally Posted by txcncman View Post
    Maybe he was referring to the blond stripper. Her stage name is La Machine.
    Here is the blond stripper programming the g-code on the machine to make a part and a pic of her deburring the part she programmed and ran. Then she swept the shop floor also.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Haas taping problem-img_0634-jpg   Haas taping problem-img_0525-jpg   Haas taping problem-img_0666-jpg  
    Haas ended up taking care of our problems.


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    Wow, been a long time since I've seen a drill chuck in a mill spindle.



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    Quote Originally Posted by underthetire View Post
    Wow, been a long time since I've seen a drill chuck in a mill spindle.
    underthetire.. on a more serious note, I see you have alot of posts and I went through and read some. It looks like you have worked on alot of different machines. I see a post that you do not like hurco and one where you like the mori duravertical 5100.

    We drove to kansas city friday and looked at a couple mori duravertical 5100's and some hurco machines. we are driving to wichita tomorrow to look at a makino ps95. Do you know anything about the makino? If so how would you compare it to the duravertical? good and bad? And what do you think of having a small hurco maybe VM-10 as just a small machine to do odd jobs? What are problems with them? What we are thinking of doing is get a really good machine (mori or makino) so hopefully we will not have problems like we have had. And also get a cheep small machine just to have for maybe roughing parts while the other machine is running. And anyone else that has any real input on this subject please post also. Where would I post on here to get some real input on Makino vs Mori?

    Haas ended up taking care of our problems.


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Haas taping problem

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