Post Problems

[rfstar]

I am going Gibbscam on a Hitachi Seiki Super Hicell 250 Mill/Turn with B-axis and the post I have for this Machine is Terriable and Im not getting any help for Gibbscam, or my local Rep, because they believe the post is Edit free, which is fear from the truth,

What Im looking for is the post editing tools so I can change some of the Format, can anyone Help ?

Thanks in Advance

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[mtlmnchr]

Gibbs has a new feature I found out when my rep demoed the new package to me ....called POSTHASTE I believe ...check it out with him ....if he doesnt respond ...let me know maybe I can get you in-touch with my dealer.

[cadman]

The version of PostHaste that comes bundled with Gibbs is for basic 2D & 3D programming and doesn't support mill/turn machines. I believe you can buy developer's software from Gibbs that will allow you to edit Composte, but one of the prerequisites is you must go to Gibbs for training.
The alternative is to edit the NCF file manually with Predator Editor, which is also bundled with Gibbs.

[Gibbsgod]

The current post haste will not help you for this machine type. They are (gibbs and Ground support, the makers of Post Haste) adding support for Mill/Turn machines. This is an upgrade that you can buy and do the post work yourself. Post Haste would be MUCH more user freindly than Gibbs's Compost.

As for the predator editor, DON'T GO THERE. There are TOO many things to edit there, 2 files, sync codes, wait statments and many more.

Check with your reseller and find out when the mill/turn support for Poste haste will be avalible.

Also, Keep on Gibbs for the changes/fixes on your MTM post. You paied for it right? Don't let them get away without making it right for you.

Try to contact Gibbs Directly, ask to speak to the Sales Manager for your area.

GOOD LUCK

GG

[Shop Rag]

rfstar
I talked with this fellow about a week ago and he said they specialize in multi-axis machining post. Here's his e-mail address see if he can help. I used to work for Hitachi and If you need some tech help on your machine give me a ding.
Here is the e-mail address:
Andy Brewster [andy@ims-software.com]

[pounce]

I would talk to someone different @ Gibbs....
I have been using there software and posts for 15 years and NEVER had any problems with posts or getting posts tweaked.
Stay on them. they'll get you straightened out.

Question: Did they offer you the names of their "3rd party" post writers??
If your interested, let me know and I can get you in contact with them. They are guys that were with Gibbs in the beginning, then have since gone off on their own and write/modify posts for Gibbs.

[cadcam]

If you go to the links page on my website you can contact my freind the owner of Post Hast.
He is vary supportive.

He most likly be able to get you another option.

My site www.ppcadcam.com

[TAB]

You could try looking at icam or IMS post software packages. They are graphical and are flexible. You will need a licinse for each machine, but it may save you money in the long run vs. spending big money on a post. I think the going rate is$1000.00 per axis for a stand alone post.

If you are working with gibbs, send them a file with the output you want and a fiel showing the output you are getting or, just flag the output you are getting. They seem highly willing to work with me.

Addtionally, I had a toolchange issue and after sending them a copy of my file, and the output, it was a snafu on my part in the prgramming of the software which was the issue. Your situation may be the same.

Good luck

[Rekd]

Agreed on keeping on them about fixing your post. If you bought it, they need to make it run they way you want it to run, NOT what they think is best.

This was one of my bigger complaints when I was using Gibbs/Virtual Gibbs and GibbsNC/CAD/CAM over the past 10 years or so. I much prefer having complete control myself out of the box without having to buy 2nd or 3rd party products.

'Rekd

[Gibbsgod]

I agree with everyone, they all have valid points but, there are a few things to think about.

If you go the ICAM route the cost will be more, the interface integration for your machine paramaters will NOT work with the post. You will need to buy a APT-CL option for GibbsCAM to output the code needed to get ICAM to work. This is also a BIG expense.

When using an ICAM post, you might NOT get the machine motion to match the rendering/simulation in GibbsCAM. They (ICAM) are changing the outcome of the program after the simulation. There is no way to check to make sure that the code is coming out correctly or not. If you are using Gibbs post, they make sure everything is working to gether.

Also, with an ICAM post if a function in Gibbs is added/fixed/modified in future versions, they will corect the post at no charge. You will have to go back to ICAM for fixes, which I assume will cost you more money.


Seecond thing for Rekd, I agree that being able to build/modify your posts is a big deal. This all depends on who the person is and if they can do it or not. Most people would NOT have a clue on building a 3 or 4 axis post, let alone a post that needs to program spindle sync, turret syncs, wait codes and get everything to come out correctly aligned between two programs that are needed to run a mahcine like this one.

Gibbs will be offering Post Haste with support for ALL GibdsCAM modules including multi spindle/ multi turret machines as well as 5 axis simultanious milling.

So if you really like to do it yourself, there are the tools, so have at it.

GG

[cadcam]

(Gibbs will be offering Post Haste with support for ALL GibdsCAM modules including multi spindle/ multi turret machines as well as 5 axis simultanious milling.)

So I will ask why not contact post hast now.
He does support multi axis.

I am working with him on ones for other softwares..

Just thought..

[Gibbsgod]

When Gibbs builds a Multi axis post for a mill/turn multi-spindle machine the do customizing to the interface and the machine setup files. These all need to work with the post or you will have issues.

On a standard mill/lathe with one cutting tool (spindle/turret) and one spindle (lathe) there is not a big issue. On a mill/turn machine with 2 turrrts and or spindles there are other things to consider.

#1 Machine size and travels of all axies.
#2 What things move, and how.
#3 Syncronizing of spindles and Turrets
#4 Extra Machine options (not in standard Gibbs) like;

Bar Feeder
Bar Puller
Part Catcher
Sub-Spindle Control
a. Sub Spindle In/Out
b. Part Shift (incrament pull with sub spindle)
c. Syncronized turning (both spindles on the part)
d. Using sub-spindle as live center
e. bar pull with sub spindle

Robot Programing
Steady rest in turret (fixed or chasing cutting tool)

Calculation of each turret position while using Constand Surface Speed.

Setting up machine size for length of travel from main to sub spindle. And last but not least PROPER RENDERING.

So as you can see there are MANY things that need to be custom added to the software to get the Multi asix lathes to work.

I would hate to try and do any of this without getting the software options in and then working with the post. Ground Support needs to make sure that they have all the paramaters in their product to support all possible funciotns of these mahcines.


Hope this helps.

GG

[jonbanquer]

I see that Gibbs has dumped their own cut part rendering in favor of using the Machine Works module. Good move ! The new Gibbs UI looks very, very nice and with a more powerful Post Haste, Gibbs's future looks better to me than it has in a long time. Now that these long standing Gibbs issues have *finally* been resolved, perhaps Gibbs will shock the world and actually give users some powerful geometry creation tools...

Hey Now !!!

It might happen. ;>)

How many years did Gibbs tell machinists that they should never edit / create their own posts ? :>)

I'm still left wondering if Gibbs has finally got a demo version that one can use to fully evaluate the Gibbs product hands on without being hassled by a high pressure boiler room sales droid... edit ;>)

In the mean time, I'm looking forward to seeing how far MasterCAM can progress from the stone age with Version X.

MasterCAM has always had some very, very powerful toolpathing... now it would be nice if MasterCAM X was actually made so that it was enjoyable to use for those of us who appreciate a good UI and as non-modal approach as possible. Further, it would be nice if creating and editing posts in MasterCAM was made to be like EZCAM or FeatureCAM's template based post constructor.

Just my opinions.

I could be wrong.... but I'm not. ;>)

jon

[Gibbsgod]

I think you need to get a new set of things to bash products about. Granted your views are warrented and very resasonable bit, come on now.....

How many years do we have to read the same things from you?

If your #1 thing is STILL a demo disk to evaluate GibbsCAM (Which I would like to see as well) you have sure waited along time to purchase a product. Are you fingers getting tired yet?


Evals are avalible and have been for some time. Even Full function ones, import/export, modeling, toolpath and posting are all working and you can try it out on your machine. Just don't be a tire kicker and step up to the plate.

Gibbs has NOT dumped the current CPR, there will just be another rendering engine avalible to those who choose. The current CPR is aniquated (yes) but, it is still very quick, runs while you are making changes and does NOT need to process the toolpath information before running. Hell, it is even an integrated feature unlike many others. (MasterCAM and One CNC to name two) Both of these need a new window and new controls that break you out of the main application to work. Gibbs at least, does not do this.

I would also opt for a GUI/template based Post generator, but Post Haste is not bad at all and very flexable. It can (next version) also support a much higher end output conpaired to others out there. 2 - 5 axis Milling (simultanious), Lathe to 20+ axies, not too bad hu?

I am also awaiting the next MasterCAM (X) I think the X will end up standing for eXperimental!! This is a HUGE jump for them and I am sure (like all others before them) they will NOT get it right the first or even second time around. The current MasterCAM "PowerUsers", i'm sure will be very upset having to learn a totally new software and interface. I just think of all the Esprit users that had to jump from and AWSOME X version to the new Windows version. They are still not totally happy, and still are crying that X had more control and was better at cheating.

Either way MasterCAM X will be a big thing GOOD or BAD. I hope for me, that the re-learning and the addition of maintenance will open their eyes to look at other products.

GG

[BlueChip]

Every CAM package has a problem in posting somewhere ... an alternative is a software package like KipwareXC (www.KentechInc.com) that puts the user in charge of the translation.

Using this type of software, you can use a generic post or a post that is close, then just run the G code through the software and control the end result.

You can easily set up multiple machines and translations ... no limitations ... no hassles ... no training.

[Rekd]

John and GG, do you need a timeout? Haven't seen either of you for a while, did you follow each other here for this?

Blue Chip,

Mastercam gives you full access to the post processor. In the last 3 or 4 years I have not had to 'post' post process my files from Mastercam. MP is it's own programming language, with variables, if-then statements, buffers, shelling capabilities etc etc. Even if I ever did need to post post process a file, I'd do it with the built in VBS and use a FSO to change it (which could be called right from the post.. ), not a third party product. (And yes, while it can be a bit overwhelming at first, like learning CAD/CAM, it is very easy to make most of the basic changes you would require, much of it is done with simple switches.)

After taking a quick look at the link you provided, it appears to be very limited in that it can only move thru one line at a time, and you are only able to modify and delete items. What if I want my G90 G0 G17 line to be moved BEFORE the M06 line. Or if I want to add a set of routines specific to a setup/machine, (like a re-position, dump cycle, M00 with movement for clamp chagnes etc etc etc), based on a value in the original program? Either way, I can't see spending the extra money when I can do everything it can do and more right in the post with Mastercam.

'Rekd

[Gibbsgod]

Sorry, Sorry....

Just get tired of the same gripes over and over. Let's work on discusing new things and talk about other stuff.

Had a very stressfull day.

My apologies.

GG

[Rekd]

None needed. I didn't mean to offend; 'twas more of a joke than anything. I really enjoy both or your levels of knowledge, and don't want to discourage you from posting. (I must agree that it does get old after a while, *cough John cough*

'Rekd

[jonbanquer]

"Granted your views are warrented and very resasonable"

The truth will set you free. :>)

"How many years do we have to read the same things from you?"

Till the problems with Gibbs, MasterCAM, etc. get fixed. ;>)

"This is a HUGE jump for them"

Agreed, but somehow I think that CNC Software, after many years of doing nothing about their stone age UI, complete with it's massive part blocking dialog boxes, will now get most of this right with X. Fixing just this is enough to get me to make the move to X.

"The current CPR is aniquated "

Well said.

"I would also opt for a GUI/template based Post generator"

More evidence that you and I are twins separated at birth. :>)

"I am sure (like all others before them) they will NOT get it right the first or even second time around. "

Sometimes you have to be grateful for what you can get. I'm grateful that Gibbs was *forced* into allowing users to be able to create and edit their own posts. I'm grateful Gibbs is not wasting any more money with their obsolete cut part rendering. I will be grateful in the future when Gibbs does something about it's horrendous geometry creation... I do like Geometry Expert, however.

"If your #1 thing is STILL a demo disk to evaluate GibbsCAM (Which I would like to see as well) you have sure waited along time to purchase a product. "

My "#1 thing" was Gibbs not letting users create and edit their own posts. It was inconceivable to me that someone would be ignorant enough to purchase a system without this ability.

"Either way MasterCAM X will be a big thing GOOD or BAD."

Once again we agree. I'm just convinced that when someone strings their customers along for as long as CNC Software has that CNC Software cannot afford to make a mistake. I believe CNC Software is now very well aware of this. If CNC Software gets it wrong, CNC Software stands to lose a massive amount of money and market share that they most likely would *never* get back.

"I just think of all the Esprit users that had to jump from and AWSOME X version to the new Windows version."

I used Esprit X all day, everyday, for well over a year. It was a bug filled unfinished piece of software. It did have a nice (main screen) UI presentation though as well as some other nice attributes. I am well aware of how long it took DP to get it right with their Windows version. CNC Software has far more resources than Paul and Dan did / do.

"... does NOT need to process the toolpath information before running. Hell, it is even an integrated feature unlike many others. (MasterCAM and One CNC to name two) Both of these need a new window and new controls that break you out of the main application to work. Gibbs at least, does not do this."

Understand what your saying. However, this is still not as good as having *real time verification* when using a CAM system with a source code language. Download a free trial of G-Zero and see for yourself.

Perhaps one day Gibbs will allow people to do the same without one having to resort to..... I'll edit myself this time. :>)


jon (Product loyalists suck.)

[jonbanquer]

"Just get tired of the same gripes over and over."

Then perhaps CAM companies should be a lot more responsive to giving machinists the needed tools rather than dishing out the constant hype. For instance, a recent Gibbs ad proclaims that job shops should "hire" Bill Gibbs to work for them. Our response is until Bill fixs the problems with Gibbs we won't "hire" him. If fact, we would enjoy firing him and we don't need "The Donald" to do it. ;>)

No doubt my posts have improved the bad day you were having. :>)

Should I send you a bill for my services overnight ? While no one really likes to get a bill perhaps it would be easier on you if I sent my bill using Guaranteed Overnight Delivery ?

I belive they can still be reached at 1-800-Dial-God.

;>)

jon