plasma or water jet???

[hutch82]

Hey there hows it going guys? I am new to this site and I had a quick question. Me and a friend are looking at quitting our metal working factory jobs and starting up our own business. We are kinda stuck on what kinda machine to invest in between plasma and waterjet. What are the pros and cons of these to machines???? What are the approx cost we are looking to cut all kinds of parts and peices to start off i think we would like for a table to hold a 4x8 sheet of what ever or something smaller and go from there any help and input on this topic would be awesome thanks alot
HUTCH

[Paul_S]

Well some obvious differences. One is hot cutting and the other is cold cutting. Water jet can cut a wider range of materals.

Beyond, this, I don't know enough about plasma cutting. And water jet cutting only what I have read and seen.

[InspirationTool]

You might find this comparison page I wrote helpful:

http://www.jeffalbro.net/cnc/2d-comparison/

Waterjet is alot more accurate, but ALOT more expensive.

I think your first question should be, who are your customers?

-Jeff

[lgreeves]

What do you do at your current metal working factory job?

[hutch82]

where we work now we build big industrial things like tanks hoppers ect the plasma table there is 15' by 60' its really big. We are not looking to go that big. Would like to get into everything I guess that would be the good thing about the water jet machine is it will cut everything. So from the sounds of it so far water jets more expensive but will cut more things. What are some good machines to look into for plasma and waterjet so i could look into both machines. We are looking just for a small sized machine. What would be a aprox total cost for each set up waterjet or plasma????
thanks alot

[Richel]

I can't really tell you the pricing for plasma set-up but for a waterjet to give you an idea you're looking about $150,000 for a new 4' x 8' or 6' x 12'. if you look at the used side you could get a machine that size for $80-100,000 depending on the features and how many hours are on the machine.



In general the cost to run a waterjet is about $30-35/hr plus the cost for an operator and your capital repayment. This will include abrasive (the most expensive item), power, water, general repairs, spare parts, etc.



If you have other waterjet questions check out either:

www.richel.com (used waterjet reseller with a 2-day course designed to educate new people to the industry the course also does a thorough comparison of laser, waterjet, plama, and oxyfuel)



OR



www.wardjet.com (new waterjet manufacturer but there's a lot of general information in the commonly asked questions area of the site)



Good Luck!

[DareBee]

Check out Jino's gallery to realize some of the diversity of waterjet.
http://www.jetcutinc.com/gallery.html

An industrial grade plasma is around $100k and waterjet starts at $150k (unless you want a toy like on OCC).
A high end "home shop" plasma will run you $30k - IMO you couldn't start a viable business running anything less.

Laser is generally taking over from plasma.

Around here everyone and their dog has a laser, not a market I want to get into without having a big contract first.

[Torchhead]

Plasma is cheaper to buy, faster, and less costly to run. It can be setup and will cut metal up to the capacity of the plasma unit you buy. Your cut speeds on modern plasma are in the range of 80 to 180 IPM. On waterjet and laser they are slower. waterjet and laser gives you better finished edges but a properly setup and run plasma unit can do some impressive stuff.

I disaggree with the statement you need to spend a min of 30K for plasma cutting for profit. I have a $2500.00 self built machine I have been running for five years and it's made me thousands of dollars cutting decorative steel.
see www.FourhillsDesigns.com. There are a LOT of commercial production shops running the new breed of mid-tier tables in the 10,000 to 15,000 range.

One bit of advice: You and your friend need to sit down and decide which of you is going to be the sales/accounting/paperwork person. Then you both need to realize you may not be able to draw a penny out of the business for over a year after startup. If your friend is a close friend and your families are close then being in business together is a bad idea. It will at the very least strain the relationship and most probably ruin it if the business is not successful.

The burning desire to own your own business is admirable but you need to be aware that it's ten times harder than you can foresee. If you don't have a really firm idea of what your market is and where your business will come from then you will spend a lot of your early time and dollars developing a market while the overhead continues to drain your cash. In order to get business you will have to be either cheaper or faster (probably both) then your competition. Your early jobs will not carry the margins you would hope for. You will make costly pricing mistakes. You will get work from sources that sense your hunger and use that to get you to bid things at what turns out to be a net loss. You will get the jobs other shops that have learned the lesson turn down.

The market in your area needs to drive the type machine you invest in. Waterjet is a neat technology, but you have to be in a commercial location with commercial power to run the massive 60,000 psi pump and to deal with the waste water and abrasive. If the majority of your business ends up being metal cutting of 1/2" or less, and pieces that can stand the .025 tolerance of plasma cutting, you will end up trying to compete with lower cost processes at other shops. A lot of areas consider the waterjet waste to be dangerous because of the dissolved metals and other things you cut.

There may be a move to lasers in heavy industrial areas but once again if the primary product is thinner metal, the price differential far exceeds the return. To pay for a laser you either need to be a manufacturer that is doing high volumes of product (in house) that HAS to have the accuracy and/or be cutting non-metallic materials, or have one really aggressive sales force because the machine has to run two shifts a day to pay for it and it's overhead.


I worked at one time for a 5B (billion) a year heavy manufacturer. They built things from steel. They get heartburn investing in conventional equipment and the number of CNC operations is tiny and they don't own but one CNC plasma cutter. It stays broken or non-operational because they can't keep trained operators. They would no more invest in a laser machine than try to build a space shuttle.

[Dale Heart]

You should try water jet plasma. That is kind of a joke but it's not.