Titanium material

[claas900]

..Hello,I'm wanting to make Titanium a-arms for my ATV,I'm working on finding a welder for it,but I'm wanting to get the material for it,get everything set up so he can just weld them.
..My problem is i don't know a lot about Ti.Most A-arms are made out of 4130 chromemoly,3/4X.065 uppers and 1'X.120 lowers.
..Iv been told I could use Ti 1'X.070 for lowers,And something around 3/4X.060 or so for uppers??
..So were do i get it,been told to use grade 9 which is 3al 2.5v alloy,is about 140 ksi,4130 is around 110ksi? Any help would be great..Again i dont know a lot about Ti. Thanks

[MBG]

whoa how much is that costing you? What kind of atv? I have seen aluminum ones done before but no titanium

[claas900]

..Iv been told about $25 a ft. But to buy them made,witch i dont think i even can,about 1,600. Iv only heard of aluminum uppers,but there only for flat tracking. Its a Cannondale Speed.Thanks

[wms]

Claas,
Problem is two fold..

One: 3-2.5 Ti tube is used for aerospace stuff..mainly hydraulic system lines. So finding anything with a wall thickness over .035 to .045 is difficult if not impossible. As the airplane manufactures dictate what sizes are manufactured..They don't need or what anything that heavy..so not much of it is made if any..3-2.5 is about the only alloy that is produced on any regular basis in tube form.

Two: In order to get a good solid weld on Ti, you can't let any air get into the weld zone while the metal is it's molten state..If you do it will weaken the weld zone and become brittle..not good..Most all Ti welding is done in a vacuum chamber or purge box,under inert gas state..(argon)..to keep any air (oxygen and nitrogen) from reaching the molten metal..So not only is this expensive, to purge the chamber, you need one large enough for your parts to fit into with room to work..plus welding in a box is more difficult, so more expensive.

Some guys will tell you they can just "turn up the gas" and get away with it..well maybe some can and do, most do not. And at 90 mph not something you might want to find out which it is.

A "Good" weld on Ti will bright and shinny. About the same color of the base metal..Any discoloration in or around the weld zone is a sigh of a sub par weld. Ranging from "straw" to "dark grey".

Then there is the problem of welding rod. It should be of the same composition as the base metal. Not something you find at your local weld supply.

Good luck..

try here..you will have to call as they get different sizes all the time...

http://www.shapirosupply.com/catalog/Page25.html

[claas900]

....Thanks wms...man you gave a lot of info..
...I did know about www.shapirosupply.com . I also found www.tricormetals.com and http://www.californiametal.com/titanium.htm . and http://www.gravesmotorsports.com/ witch i believe sells the arms on special order only? Yeah i can find the size I'm looking for or very close to,but i just didn't know how Ti was graded? Most places iv email just write back and say we don't carry "Alloy".
..So what would you recommend i do? Give up on this? Use some other grade Ti? Something close to 4130 chrome molly? Anything?
..Ill try to attach a pic of Ti arms. But even for me the Ti arms are over built,I don't jump off 50ft cliffs,I just play very hard and race about 8 times a year. I was just trying to save some weight. I can also get a Ti axle for about $800.
..Again Thanks very Helpful..

[claas900]

..Let me try this pic again..sorry..

[Mortek]

I've welded on a fair amount of titanium. Have you considered 6al 4v. A wider variety of thicknesses may exist for this alloy. Also I have welded in chambers and my favorite way is to use glove bags, which are plastic bags with glove ports in them. I cut the bottoms out and duct tape it to the welding table. put the part and rod in and purge with argon and weld away. These bags I have used are 20" X 30" acccomadating a fair sized work piece.

[claas900]

..If 6al 4v would work,id use it..I know I'm not going to weld it,we have a lot of racers here and lots of Ti gets used so someone has got to know how to weld it??
..Scents I know the size they use in 4130 I just thought id use the same in Ti and it'd be at least just as strong,but 40% lighter.But scents Ti is stronger id be able to use something thiner?? Just don't know how much thiner?
..i don't want to eat it at 90mph,But i also think they always over built after market arms so they can brag how strong they are. But if I'm going to eat it at 90mph id rather have my a-arms give in over my frame giving in. Also I wont be doing 90,she'll top out at about 80 or so
..So is 6al 4v comparable to 4130 or ? ..I really just wanted a direction on what Ti to use and go from there if possible. Thanks again guys..

[claas900]

..I thought I'd give this a bump,see if anyone had more to add..Thanks again.

[lukesdaddy]

Where do you get the weld bags from?

Thanks,

[Mortek]

Instruments for Research and Industry
108 Franklin ave.
Cheltenham, PA 19012

I've had these a while, hope they are still in business. By the way it also helps to buy a piece of plexiglass and tape it in the front where you will be looking through to weld. I just use clear packaging tape to tape the plexiglass to the bag.
They are still in business
http://www.i-2-r.com