Indexible vs. Solid, Endmills and threadmills

[hydrospin01]

Hello everyone,

Survey-whats everyones opinion on solid tooling compared to indexible tooling? Advantages and dis-advantages of each?

[JWB_Machining]

There's quite a few pros and cons of each but I'll leave that to the more experience guys. The one piece of info I will add is that you can solid carbides, threadmills/taps in smaller diameters then you can in their indexible counterparts.

[tobyaxis]

Originally Posted by JWB_Machining There's quite a few pros and cons of each but I'll leave that to the more experience guys. The one piece of info I will add is that you can solid carbides, threadmills/taps in smaller diameters then you can in their indexible counterparts.

This is true in the above.

To add a little more Insert Tools have more aggressive rake angles and lower cutting forces. They also absorb more vibration. The results are higher feeds and speeds vs solid carbide cutters.

Solid carbide cutters are cheaper in most respects compared to the above Insert style cutters. These are also better for finishing high walls in one pass.

Mainly each has their place and specific application so your question is pretty general.

If your trying to decide which one to buy for an application that will help others to share their thoughts to help you get what you need.

[Geof]

[QUOTE=tobyaxis;591807....To add a little more Insert Tools have more aggressive rake angles and lower cutting forces. They also absorb more vibration. The results are higher feeds and speeds vs solid carbide cutters....[/QUOTE]

I think you need to qualify this: Insert cutters can be beefier and they can sometimes do higher speeds and feeds but sometimes they choke up on chip clearance with the smaller sizes, especially with aluminum.

In addition micrograin carbide inserts ground for aluminum are not really common.

[hydrospin01]

Originally Posted by tobyaxis If your trying to decide which one to buy for an application that will help others to share their thoughts to help you get what you need.

Right now im just trying to think open minded. I've been in the industry for only 6 years and consider myself a forever student in this vast industry. Lately there's been a salesmen buzzing in the boss's boss's ear hyping up indexibles, suggesting we switch all of our solid tooling to iscar inserts.

I usually stick to indexible ( sandvik ) inserts on our lathes for steel and stainless, our mill for doing steel really really lacks rigidity on the fixture, so i've got better results here with solid endmills ( pct-cutters powder metal endmills ), but still stick to indexible's for drilling. In our aluminum department we have all milling machines, here i keep all solid tooling, partly because it's only aluminum, partly because the operators in this department start at nearly minumum wage ( you get what you pay for ) im affraid of breaking expensive insert holders due to operators not keeping an eye on tooling.

Are products are simple, seamless pressure vessels, just port & tap ( threadmill ) operation on the cnc machines, not really much too it. I dont like the idea of switching everything to indexibles, but like to think open minded, of coarse the salesman promises the world and say's there the best but... lets face it, he's a salesmen.

So i got curious on others opinions on things, hince the start of this thread

[tobyaxis]

Well is sounds like you have a grasp on the salesman. I wouldn't change everything over to Index Tooling either. If it is in your bosses budget upgrade a few things and see if there is an improvement across the board. Meaning Increased productivity, Savings on overall tooling purchases, Time, and Surface Finishes that meet your needs.

I have to say that Isccar Tooling is pretty good, but Sandvik is better.

[JWB_Machining]

I'd go with what tobyaxis says. If you're doing production work of very similar parts over and over and you plan to be in business for at least a few more months over time you'll probably end up saving money if indexable tools work for you. When you wear out an insert you only have to replace the insert and the holder is still good, but if you wear out a solid carbide you've gotta replace the whole thing. So for what you're doing if indexables produce the results you need stick with them because in the long run you'll end up saving money.

[fuzzyracing1967]

I'll go the indexable way every chanse I get,why,well you have the answer allready,

( partly because the operators in this department start at nearly minumum wage ( you get what you pay for ).

I find we have less problems if I just tell an operator to change inserts after x amount of parts,rather then telling them to keep an eye on that tool.Understand I will run enough parts off to find that limit,and cut it back a little so the problems are rare.I allso have to say the productivity goes up becouse of feeds and speeds being higher,along with the idiot factor,( I know I'm not politicly correct ) ,less can go wrong in changing an insert then a endmill for instance.That being said every part is differant and that dictates what gets used,and as far as the expense I know somewhere down the road I'll use it for something else,as long as I remember that is .

[hydrospin01]

Originally Posted by fuzzyracing1967 less can go wrong in changing an insert then a endmill for instance.

You would think so, but im still trying to get the guys in this department to understand how a torque wrench is to be used.

Quote:Hydrospin01
( our mill for doing steel really really lacks rigidity on the fixture, so i've got better results here with solid endmills )

Is this a problem others have had with indexibles?

[fuzzyracing1967]

(You would think so, but im still trying to get the guys in this department to understand how a torque wrench is to be used)

You should tighten them untill they strip right . It's allways the same guy to I bet,.

As far as a rigidity problems I'd say no, but you may have to take lighter cuts say 2 cuts at twice the feed if possible to 1 cut but half the feed.It's hard to say becouse of so many variables.An exsample I would give is we have parts that get slotted anywhere from .5 deep to 1.125,forever we did it with a hss endmill,an average slot lets say took 5 minutes.Now we do those same slots in half the time becouse we use a insert mill taking lighter cuts but 50 times the feed,and it's easer on the machine to boot.The endmill we use now happens to be a Isccar with one little tool,I think they go down to .375 not sure,but I do know you can push them big time.I use it in alum,cast iron,mild steel,and differant grades of stainless steel.

On a side note I had some fun today when one of the guys wanted to see what it looks like to circular interpolate a hole, (I don't do it very often becouse it's not practical with a lot of are work).I took a .6 insert mill and went down through a junk alum casting making a hole about 1. by .75 deep at a feed of 250 ipm the look on his face was priceless .

[tobyaxis]

Originally Posted by fuzzyracing1967 I took a .6 insert mill and went down through a junk alum casting making a hole about 1. by .75 deep at a feed of 250 ipm the look on his face was priceless .

Next time do it at 400IPM. They might have to change their DEPENDS

[fuzzyracing1967]

(Next time do it at 400IPM)

Damm Toby 250 is enough to scare me,let alone 400