novice questions....

[Matt McColley]

disclaimer... I'm not a machinist, nor do I pretend to be one by night.

I'm setting up an X3 style bench top mill and am learning about and ordering tooling.

I get to play on the manual knee mill at work on my own time and get help from our salty maintenance guru. He taught me to set up my end mills in a collet. As I've shopped around for tooling, I now see there's a critter called an end mill holder.

I can see the advantage of using a 3/8" end mill holder for several different size end mills with 3/8" shanks. Also, it appears that you could switch your tools and keep a pretty consistant cutter length, not having to touch off every time.

Are there any other advantages over a collet?

Does a collet provided sufficient holding power, given that it doen't engage the flat?

Lot's to learn here.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Matt

[djr76]

Collets are actually better then endmill holders since the grip the shank concentric instead of the set screw loading the tool to one side. You will get better tool life, increased accuracy and you can mount drills, taps and reamers into them. I assume you are gonna have an R8 spindle, which in turn using the R8 collet system makes it a pain in the arse. Might wanna check into quick change tooling system like that of Royal makes http://www.royalprod.com/product.cfm?catID=11 , I have this system set up on a Bridgeport knee mill. The have a collet chuck for double angle and ER style collets.

[Matt McColley]

that Royal quick change is the cat's meow!

I bet they cost a small fortune though.

I'm setting up for an R8 spindle bench top mill.

our mill at work is an R8 set up as well, so at least I know the nature of the beast.

I ordered a collet set from ENCO and will not bother with the end mill holder for the time being.

Are there any issues with collets slipping under heavy load?

[JWB_Machining]

I had a guy come in from Haas to train me on the machines we got. He advised me not to use endmills in ER-16 & ER-32 Collets, he preferred a proper endmill holder to prevent slipping. I on the other hand think collets do a better job and they can hold all sorts of tools. With any good collet you shouldn't get slipping but my experience in machining is very limited compared to other peoples. My logic on collets is that when a collet closes in on your tool it presses in on the tool from every direction when you use an endmill holder you only have a set screw holding it in which may move the tool the slightest bit possible off center thus effecting its performance. But hey i've been doing this only a few months I've got a lot to learn about set ups.

[DareBee]

My take is that collets are more accurate and short endmill holders are more rigid.
On the little benchtop you will not have the power to work an endmill as hard as it's potential is - so solid holders will be of no advantage.

RE: DA or ER collets. I suggest that most people will be happier with ER collets rather than DA. The DA are more money, more accurate, the holders break really easy, less holding power and the will only hold shanks that are exactly ON size.

[plastibob]

Originally Posted by JWB_Machining I had a guy come in from Haas to train me on the machines we got. He advised me not to use endmills in ER-16 & ER-32 Collets, he preferred a proper endmill holder to prevent slipping. I on the other hand think collets do a better job and they can hold all sorts of tools. With any good collet you shouldn't get slipping but my experience in machining is very limited compared to other peoples. My logic on collets is that when a collet closes in on your tool it presses in on the tool from every direction when you use an endmill holder you only have a set screw holding it in which may move the tool the slightest bit possible off center thus effecting its performance. But hey i've been doing this only a few months I've got a lot to learn about set ups.

I have a Haas Mini-Mill and I use ER-16 collets for a lot of my tooling without any problem, I actually like them better. I do use holders for the bigger end mills.

[Crevice Reamer]

Tormach Quick Change tool systems use ER-20 collets or end mill holders. It's much less expensive to convert with a few end mill holders first. Most of the BIG cost is the ER-20 collets.

http://littlemachineshop.com/product...itFast=tormach

You just need a 3/4" R8 collet adapter and some EM holders to start.

If you are just beginning to buy tooling, NOW is the time to go Tormach--Before you have too much invested in R8 tooling. You can add some as needed and eventually will have a full QC set.

CR.

[Matt McColley]

The Tormach system looks really nice and is not all that pricey for the basics.

I'm thinking if I get the following, I'd be pretty well covered....

TTS-R8 Collet
1/4, 3/8 & 1/2 end mill holders
JT2 adaptor for my chuck.

It seems like rapid switching between end mills and the drill chuck would get the biggest bang for the buck.

If you swap out the TTS-R8 collet to load another R8 tool (boring bar, etc...) will the TTS adaptor go back to the exact same reference point when re-installed? Or will you have to validate the position before loading the QC adaptors?

The reason I ask, is...

1. the ER20 collet adaptor is pretty darn expensive. Aside from setting tool heights off line (which is very handy) I can't see any other big advantage.
2. a complete set of R* collets is short money.