How to quote a job

[Shotout]

I've recently been given the added duty of quoting some of the jobs for the machine shop and with barely a years experience in this trade I am finding it difficult to do so correctly. I have a general template (excel) to follow but the actual machine time is what is killing me. I don't have enough experience to fall back on to estimate the time require to machine certain parts. I had thought about calculating the material to remove from a given piece of stock, metal removal rate and going from there, but that is a lot of calculations for some of these parts and I really don't have the time to spend in the office rather than on the shop floor. Can anyone give me some general guide lines/advice on this? Until our new salesman starts a month from next Monday I'm going to be doing it and am expected to help him after he starts. Thanks
Scott

[big_mak]

Sorry Scott, but that is one of the hardest things to do. Especially since you haven't got much experience.

Don't forget to figure in consumables and such.

Sorry I'm not of much help here.

[Shotout]

Big Mak

I understand that! I appreciate the thoughts. They have a set percentage they use for everything but T.P. for consumables, however the tooling % is only 2% of the materials + labor so I've been actually looking up tooling so we don't get caught short there, but the boss doesn't understand when I say I'm not comfortable quoting this or that. I just don't know and he smiles and says just figure it up. I use to only worry about being over my head on the actual machine work, oh those halcyon days!

Scott

[BlueChip]

Estimating software gives you the ability to more or less follow a set pattern so you don't forget any areas like tooling, etc.. Not to mention that cycletime estimating software can do the calculations for you based on set database information ( gives you consistency along with accuracy ). My opinion would be that a machine shop based quoting software will aide a lot.

Maybe a help :

KipwareQTE - Machine Shop Job Costing & Estimating Software
KipwareCYC - Machining CycleTime Estimating Software

.... info, demos at www.KentechInc.com.

[Shotout]

Thanks I'll check out the demos this weekend

Scott

Originally Posted by BlueChip Estimating software gives you the ability to more or less follow a set pattern so you don't forget any areas like tooling, etc.. Not to mention that cycletime estimating software can do the calculations for you based on set database information ( gives you consistency along with accuracy ). My opinion would be that a machine shop based quoting software will aide a lot. Maybe a help : KipwareQTE - Machine Shop Job Costing & Estimating Software KipwareCYC - Machining CycleTime Estimating Software .... info, demos at www.KentechInc.com.

[big_mak]

Blue,

If this shop owner actually has a one year guy doing estimates, do you really think he's gonna spring for a $800 software package?

[Geof]

You have been there are year so obviously a variety of work has gone through the shop in that time. Are good records kept for the actual time taken on a job? Not the (imaginary) time that was put in the estimate; the real time that it took. Can you get hold of these records, the original estimates and the prints or files for the parts?

If you can get hold of these you can possibly derive some guidelines that you can use; how long does a typical setup take for a particular type of part, what is the machining time for operations that are somewhat similar, how much tooling was consumed. How far away, plus or minus, was the actual time from the estimated time, and the actual cost, when materials and tooling are taken into account, from the estimated cost. Do particular types of parts always fall on one side or the other.

If good records for tracking what was done and how long it took have not been kept you must start keeping them for the jobs you deal with.

To some extent you are in a non-win situation so expect to get flak. If you estimate too high and the job goes someplace else you will be blamed for turning away work; if you estimate too low and things take longer than estimated you will be blamed for losing the company money. You are going to have to grin and bear it.

[jackson]

Geof is right on the money (as usual) not knowing exactly how your shop works its hard to say, we now have a system in place that takes most the guess work out of it, but how i use to do it was by starting with your base shop rate witch i assume you have and if you have been in the shop you should have some idea of the time it takes to machine parts if not ask some of your co workers same goes for tool usage they should have a pretty good idea of time, that give you a starting point then you have to figure the cost of your tooling, your scap(shavings) ext then break it down for price per part and it also all depends on the amount of parts, smaller the quantity the higher the price per part the larger the quantity its less per part.

[BlueChip]

Big_Mak,

It's gonna cost him a hell of a lot more than $800 if they win a quote that was done with incorrect figures !!!!! ... and that could easily be just one job ... you could multiply that if it gets more than one. Shops break cutting tools that cost more than $800 sometimes after only a few cuts.

What's the old saying : "Sometimes you gotta spend money to make money".

Unfortunately, too many manufacturers THROW money at problems because "people" tell them the latest and greatest will solve their problems rather than really investigating what they need ... this appears to be money well spent.

[jackson]

Originally Posted by BlueChip Big_Mak, It's gonna cost him a hell of a lot more than $800 if they win a quote that was done with incorrect figures !!!!! ... and that could easily be just one job ... you could multiply that if it gets more than one. Shops break cutting tools that cost more than $800 sometimes after only a few cuts. What's the old saying : "Sometimes you gotta spend money to make money". Unfortunately, too many manufacturers THROW money at problems because "people" tell them the latest and greatest will solve their problems rather than really investigating what they need ... this appears to be money well spent.

Well im not sure Kentech is the way to go either. kind like the old saying goes you get what you pay for.

[BlueChip]

Do you have personal experience? ... if so, share it ... if not ... ?????
Is it necessary to degrade the conversation?

It's not about Kentech ... it was an idea tossed into the ring to give some thought. That idea being that PC based software might be an option to pursue ... whether it's "what you get" for $800 or what you get for $2000. Maybe it's time the shop spent the $2000 ... maybe it's time they at least spent something ... sound like they might need it ... that's all.

[jackson]

Originally Posted by BlueChip Do you have personal experience? ... if so, share it ... if not ... ????? Is it necessary to degrade the conversation? It's not about Kentech ... it was an idea tossed into the ring to give some thought. That idea being that PC based software might be an option to pursue ... whether it's "what you get" for $800 or what you get for $2000. Maybe it's time the shop spent the $2000 ... maybe it's time they at least spent something ... sound like they might need it ... that's all.

Well i wasn't saying it was not the right system for them i said it may not be, and yes i do have some experience with it and it did not suit me not saying it wouldn't work. and yes i think in this day and age having a system is the way to go but you also have to understand some companies just arn't ready to jump into that. they have been quoting for years without it and just dont feel it is what they need to spend money on weather it be $100 or $1000