Lots of machines no skill or setting info

[Stevatome]

Hi all just been to look at a new job with a friend of mine,he has offered me a job as workshop manager but has major skill shortages.He has a large number of basic millers,lathes and grinders but some specialised machines.I have looked at these machines and they seem ok but setting info would be a great advantage,anyone help me with a Prince Crankshaft grinder,Herbert Churchill mod HC 3/15 cnc lathe or an Eroda Nc 650 wire eroding machine please

Many thanks

Stevatome

[handlewanker]

Hi steve, I don't suppose you would be interested in a short course on brain surgery for the do it yourselfer using such basic tools as a tin opener?
" ya put ya lef leg in, ya left leg out, ya do the hokey kokey and ya waglle it all about, that's what it's all about"
If you are going to be a factory manager, just advertise for someone with the necessary skill to do the job, give them a weeks trial and you'll soon be able to get shot of the B/S artists.
Whenever I applied for a job, it was always on a probation basis, shape up or ship out was the rule.
I could not imagine what you'd gain by getting anyone to tell you HOW to work one of the aforementioned machines, if you've never worked on one before.
Your mate must be desperate if he's relying on you to vet someone else's ability to perform, or are you contemplating working these machines yourself.
There would be a fine dividing line between Works Manager and Work Damager.
I worked in Bristol UK in the 60's and 70's and our firm was approached by a lad from the local school for, I suppose, an apprenticeship, but one of the tests put to him was his knowledge of the decimal and metric systems to which he replied that he wasn't interested in figures so he'd just ignored them.
I guess your problems start with the school system, mind you if this lad was able to press the green button when the red light flashed, he would be ably qualified to manage that CNC Herbert you were on about.
The only crankshaft grinder I've worked on was a Churchill that we had in the late 50's for grinding D8 Caterpillar cranks, but that was over 50 years ago, I suppose they've changed a bit since then.
Ian.

[handlewanker]

Stevatome, me again, I've just been informed by a colleague of mine, just out from the UK on holiday, that there is a glut of highly skilled workers looking for the kind of jobs you mentioned, all going continental.
Just tell that mate of yours to not be such a tight rrrrs and offer the pay that is required.
Too many shop owners and managers are trying to do the USA thing and tool up with Highly sophisticated CNC machines to allow the deskilling of an operator, but won't pay out for a decent setter.
Can't have it both ways.
Better watch out, the Chinese are taking over your industries, pretty soon you won't be supplying the world with anything, but you will be using Chinese made machines for the work that's left.
Admitted the Chinese pay their workers on average $15 a day, but then a bowl of rice costs 1 cent, you're not even on the same playing field.
Ian.

[Stevatome]

Hi Handlewanker

The thing with machines is that if i would want someone else to use them i like to know how to use them myself it avoids getting B S'ed besides i like to learn new stuff it adds strings to your bow for the future

[gridley51]

Stevatome,
a manual which covers programming,operating and part numbers with detailed views of the assemblies is available from BSA Machine Tools for the HC/315.
www.bsamachinetools.co.uk
These people are still building Churchill lathes.That machine should have a GE2000 or Fanuc 10T controller depending upon when it was built.I have a 3-15 and a 4-10 both good machines and both with the GE2000 control.
Regardless of what people say the GE is a very reliable and operator friendly control.
I can`t help with the other two but Alec at www.budgetmachinery.co.uk
may have a manual for the Prince grinder.He has a list of manuals on his site but has loads of others that he can`t be bothered listing.
If you need help with the Churchill just shout,I do the repairs and my son programmes.
Mark.

[handlewanker]

Phew, but you're a hard nut to crack, I'd like to see you tell our tool and cutter grinder at my last place of work how to do it after you've read all you can find in the manual.
Just as a matter of interest what are your quals? Not meaning to be personal or anything like that.
I'm a fitter and turner from the old school, but when I was a planning tech I had the occasion to come to a difference of opinions with a tool setter on the Index Autos, and only the fact that I use a Capstan in my own workshop gave me the edge to know what I was talking about.
Apart from being bulsh##ted by the mob, a little bit of learning is a dangerous thing, similar to learning to drive a car on the motorway by first reading about it.
If you're really serious about learning to grind crankshafts, enrol in a night school class, and if the manager position falls down you can always become a crank grinder, but at least you'll be able to do it from experience.
Best of British, and don't give up your day job.
Ian.

[Stevatome]

Hello Ian
Well i am a qualified machinist and have worked on both maintanence and prototype engineering in a large engineering firm which employs about 200 people for the last 20 odd years so its not like i'm trying to learn something completely new from a manual i have some knowledge of how to put into practace whats in the manuals as for the cnc programming i can program a wire eroder on the fanuc system so i wouldn't have thought picking up the lathe programing would be beyond me.I just need to learn new stuff because this job maybe comming to a close soon due to job and site relocation

By the way thanks for the links gridley

regards

steve

[Geof]

If what you write in Post #7 is the case why did you choose to make this;

"Lots of machines no skill or setting info"

the title of your thread?

Just a teeny, teeny bit misleading you know.

[Stevatome]

Hi Geof

Its is my skill at working the equiptment i am lacking and the workshop i am talking about does not have the skilled people either,they have either left been sacked or retired and left the country.As always documentation and machine setting information get lost through the years.

Sorry for the misinterpretation mate

Steve

[handlewanker]

Hi Stevo, one of the best ways to lose a good mate is to lend him money or go to work for him.
There must be better ways to restring your bow.
I can't help thinking that when the infrastructure is weak, then all you can do is to shore it up.
As a manager proper, would you be expected to do hands on machine setting?
I can't quite get the hang of that scenario, sounds like a working chargehand situation.
I wouldn't get too "cluey" about the machinery if I were you, you just might be expected to muck in and keep the wheels running.
You did say it was a "managers" posi that was being offered, better be carefull about changing jobs under those conditions, you could be expected to continue as you have started.
All the managers I have had experience with were office wallers, with people skills, "book larnin' skills", and their prime occupation was to run the show, and a good manager will work more hours than you can poke a stick at.
That is, first one in, last one out, weekends on the phone, no home life and attending conferences away from home, too busy to mess about with machines.
You'll soon know what kind of managers position it's going to be when you try to negotiate your salary and severance pay, firms car, office and secretary to do your paper work and filing.
What happened to the last manager?
Ian.

[Stevatome]

Hi Ian

The job is for workshop manager but at the moment the workshop is a bit thin on the ground for skilled labour,I think the idea is to get someone in with a bit of nowse and then get some degree of skilled people in,but like you say we have not talked salary or benefits yet so when that time comes I will know.It is probably going to be mid 2008 when my present employer closes the site and I may get a transfer too,(but with 140 miles a day travelling)I'm not sure if I'd be ready for that,depends on the incentives.As for job offer if all comes good I'd be prepared to muck in to get things up and running,not alot of paperwork to do as it is at this moment in time.The last manager was sacked for being a bit of a tit and taking his position for granted.The way I see it where ever you go you should learn everthing you need to know so that you can always tell if someone is taking the mick or being genuine in the job they have,I also think it gives people more respect for a gaffer if they know he can do the jobs he's ask them to do.

All the best

Steve

[handlewanker]

Hi Stevo, I hope it turns out OK for you.
I assume 140 miles a day travelling is 70 there and 70 back to your present posi, are they going to take the whole 200 workforce with them and pay them extra travelling allowance, or pay them all off and re-employ at the other end? Are there that many skilled workers available just waiting to take up a new position at the other end?
I would still keep keep in mind that your side of the desk is a lot different to the other side.
I assume there is a foreman in the works, well it's his job to to muck in and get a bit sweaty when the devil drives, and in his position he will have come up through the ranks with first hand knowledge and working experience.
No matter how thin the workforce, if I were doing the position you're being offered, there would be definite lines of demarcation that would not be crossed at any cost, even if it meant crossing swords with your best mate.
Otherwise you will be a manager in name only.
I do know for sure that employers in UK are the most narrow minded tight arrrrsed lot that ever tried to screw you down if they thought they could get you for a bob less than the next bloke, Margaret Thatcher trained them well here, otherwise if your man is offering a bit more than anyone in the district for good skilled labour he'd be beating them off with a stick.
As a matter of interest it might be a good idea to start as you intend to proceed by finding out what the rates of pay are in the factory and if they are better than anywhere else, then you are up the creek without a paddle for sure, no carrot to dangle, unless you can tempt a workforce with six months holiday twice a year.
All of the best, keep us informed of progress, it's always good to see someone rise above difficulty.
Ian.