What matters more- the machine or the machinist?

[sbalder]

When I got my latest Grizzly catalog I was blown away by the write-up on a customer who has made incredible model engines using one of what I believe is the cheapest crappiest machines on the market:

http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2007/Main/13

Mr. Vaught is a retired aircraft machinist who has been working with a Grizzly 3-in-1 machine in a small garage shop. His level of workmanship is truly outstanding; even more so given that he is working with a piece of equipment that is barely a step above a sewing machine!

I read a lot from the "experts" on this site, practical machinist, and other places. I hear a lot of people trashing import equipment and low-end cnc. I've concluded that there are as many opinions as there are machinists/hobbyists. This guy's work is inspiration to me that knowledge, patience, and skill are far more important than the equipment we work on.

Production economics and volumes may dictate certain types of equipment in order to have a good business model, but I see few limits to what can be made when a machining job is approached from a craftsmanship perspective.

[dertsap]

the equipment is only as good as the guy using it
well ! within reason anyhow, if the machine is an absolute piece then even the best will struggle,
ive seen guys struggle with the best of equipment in front of them as well

[Geof]

Which is most important? Both.

You ask a loaded question and then proceed to give a complete answer .

Yes skill and time can compensate for a less than ideal machine and an ideal machine with all the bells and whistles of DRO or full CNC with conversational programming can (partially) compensate for less than adequate skills.

[Caprirs]

That guy did a magnificent job. Imagine how much less time it would have taken on a better machine. He clearly is superior to the equipment he used, so the machine held him back.

[HuFlungDung]

Reads like a Bobcad ad. Oops, did I write that out loud?

Now, I want to rain on this guy's parade, but building small models is not, IMO necessarily an endorsement of machine quality. It only has to look right, and shiny, it doesn't have to be right, and anything that will spin under a piece of sandpaper or crocus cloth and be illuminated with flash bulbs will look shiny.

Gawd, I'm such a grouch

[Geof]

Originally Posted by HuFlungDung ......Gawd, I'm such a grouch

And at such a tender age .

[pepo]

Knowing what you have to end up with before you do anything. Then,being able to recognize if you are getting it during the process by measurement etc. You learn what each machine will do and what it wont do. Then it is up to you to get it. Look at this way,the peice you are starting with is too big,so,what you want is already there. You just have get rid of the material you dont want.

[Bubba]

I guess my vote would mainly go to the machinist.
Back in my younger days, I had the opportunity to visit many of the "old cotton mills" around the SE. Back then they all had their own machine shop and invariably, there was an old gentleman that ran the machines. Many times these men were well past normal retirement age and the machines they ran were usually older than them.
The point being, I have seen many times these gentleman turn out beautiful pieces of finished product on machines that had more slop in them that the stuff used to slop pigs in the pen. Yet they always fit and would last for several years before someone had to make another one.
Sadly those days are gone (as are most of the cotton mills) as I remember fondly talking to these gentlemen who were always eager to share their knowledge with that "young college graduate that was willing to listen"!

[USMCPOP]

I wonder how all those old guys with the crummy homemade machines managed to make all the newer precision equipment? How did they even figure out how to measure the precision? Hmmm... They knew what they were looking for. I think we only know when it bites us in the backside.

[mhtom]

I've seen guy's ask for the top on the line machines and when they get it, can't produce a damn thing right with it. On the other hand I've seen the exact opposite and seen parts I would never exspect of being able to come of of a peace of junk machinery. My vote is simply this. A machine is only as good as the person whom is using it.

[dertsap]

cnc is similar to to the disappearing box that a person steps into and disappears , except in this case of the machine you put a block of material in the magical metal box a presto a part appears

while there are tricks to accomplish each , there are many morons who beleave the person that stepped into the box did indeed disappear and there are far more that think parts magically appear

[Shotout]

Originally Posted by dertsap cnc is similar to to the disappearing box that a person steps into and disappears , except in this case of the machine you put a block of material in the magical metal box a presto a part appears while there are tricks to accomplish each , there are many morons who beleave the person that stepped into the box did indeed disappear and there are far more that think parts magically appear

Oh come on Dertsap, every fabricator/welder knows all you do is put a piece of rough cut stock in the vise and push the pretty green button. Just like they know when you are in front of the computer with a sample part, 3 or 4 external mics, calipers et al they know you aren't in the least bit busy so you can knock out these parts real quick for them.