Looking for a spindle

[Hack]

I am looking to outfit my cnc router with a different spindle. Currently I am using either a PC laminate trimmer of one of the big 7518 3+ HP routers. When I built this machine, I figured that I would be doing mostly wood working,but have begun doing quite a bit of brass and aluminum work as well.

What I am looking for is high speed spindle with the following requirements

1. Must be quiet. Hours on end of listening to a router scream has made the use of the machine almost not fun at times.

2 High rpm. All bits that I am using are 1/4" and less in diameter. Most are 1/8".

3. Durable so that I can run them for hours at a time. Or inexpensive so that if i burn them up I can buy one cheap.

4. Quiet. Yes I know that i mentioned this twice, but it is really important to me.

5. Cost. Would like to stay under 500 bucks if possible.

6. Would prefer electric over say an air powered spindle. 110 V single phase ideally.

Any links to possible candidate would be helpful.

Thanks for the input.

Dan

[darryl]

I don't know much about them but you could try one of these..

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Power-Wood-Carvin...QQcmdZViewItem

[elogicca]

Anyone try these?

http://stores.ebay.ca/Wolfgang-Engineering

[awerby]

I hear you, Hack - I've been going through the same thing myself. As someone who has used Foredom flexshafts for quite a while doing (hand) jewelry projects, I can't see them as the solution. The flex part especially would wear out quickly in this sort of continuous-duty application. Even using them sporadically for the sorts of things they're designed for, the flex cables go bad fairly quickly. Also, they usually won't spin a 1/4" tool; although there may be an extra-large capacity handpiece available.

I also tried one of the "Wolfgang" spindles off E-bay. While they do go fast - these are basically repurposed RC airplane motors - they aren't what you'd call quiet, although they aren't as loud as my Porter-Cable 3+ hp router either. Mine has a lot of vibration, and not a lot of torque. And since the tool (1/8" shank only) is held in by a setscrew, it has too much runout for the very small tools it should be best at spinning.

I tried using a Dumore electric hand-grinder, which seemed like a fairly heavy-duty tool, made in the USA. At 1/4 hp and 35,000 rpm, the specs sounded good. It was expensive, over $500, but it didn't take long for the brushes to go bad, which limits its effectiveness in a big way - even though they're replaceable, the dying brushes seem to have damaged the armature - plus it's not good for the tool to die in the middle of a job.

I've heard good things about Bosch routers for this sort of thing. They're supposed to be fairly quiet (as routers go) and they've got plenty of torque for a 1/4" tool. Another brand that gets good buzz is Kress, made in Germany, but it's hard to find here in the US. If anybody's tried either one, or found something better, I'd like to hear about it too....

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

[wildcat]

Any opinion on the Proxxon tools for this purpose?

[Krebs]

Originally Posted by Hack I am looking to outfit my cnc router with a different spindle. Currently I am using either a PC laminate trimmer of one of the big 7518 3+ HP routers. When I built this machine, I figured that I would be doing mostly wood working,but have begun doing quite a bit of brass and aluminum work as well. What I am looking for is high speed spindle with the following requirements 1. Must be quiet. Hours on end of listening to a router scream has made the use of the machine almost not fun at times. 2 High rpm. All bits that I am using are 1/4" and less in diameter. Most are 1/8". 3. Durable so that I can run them for hours at a time. Or inexpensive so that if i burn them up I can buy one cheap. 4. Quiet. Yes I know that i mentioned this twice, but it is really important to me. 5. Cost. Would like to stay under 500 bucks if possible. 6. Would prefer electric over say an air powered spindle. 110 V single phase ideally. Any links to possible candidate would be helpful. Thanks for the input. Dan

Hi Hack
sounds like you've been reading my mind I've got the same list of wants I use a Hitachi 2300 watt or 3Hp 1/2 router it will run for hours on end quite smooth and reliable but endless hours of noise. But I burn't the speed controler out twice pocketing the table before i realised a continuous load was to much for it. The best I've found in the same range is about $2000 plus anybody know of anything in That size range in reasonable quality and price.
Regards to all Paul

[rc-cellar]

Was in the same boat a year ago...

I mounted up a Sherline-Commercial er-16 spindle with a 2hp treadmill motor... total $400 invested with collets/nuts.
- I've cut ALOT of aluminum with it (mostly 1/8" sheet but up to 1/2"), just took back 300 lbs of scrap.
- It's VERY quiet! Machine is in basement, I can barely hear it on the first floor. The router I could hear halfway down the street.
- Variable speed up to 10K, tons of torque. My speed control has load-comp to keep the rpm constant.
- I rarely run it over 5K... it cuts (and drills) nice chips, instead of grinding dust
- I almost always use 1/8" endmills (Mcmaster pg. 2389), they last a long time unless I do something stupid and break 'em
- Has at least 1000 hrs on it, no signs of spindle wear or slop. Runs for hours and only gets warm (with a fan on the motor).

Just my 2 cents but I'm EXTREMELY happy with this setup.
I still have my P-C router but never put it back on.

[gone4pepsi]

Hack, check out this site. I've not purchase one of these yet, but i have spoken to others here they say they are great. When i upgrade my benchtop mill this will be my choice.
Mark

http://stores.ebay.com/Wolfgang-Engineering

[Hack]

Well after all of the input that I have gotten from you folks, I am seriously leaning to the Sherline or taig spindles with an appropriate motor. I would like to set something up with soem sort of fixed length quick change tooling solution to make tool changes. Perhaps even a R8 minimill setup with quick change tooling.

I dont think that the motors that come with these would make sufficient power. for what I need / want. Can anyone make a suggestion?

Has anyone tried an electric die grinder for a motor? Would any of these solutions work for both aluminum or brass as well as wood?

Thanks

Dan

[jshu]

jshuI'm new to the forum but not to machining. I started as a patternmaker, and routers were one of the items much used. The noise that you hear when one winds up to full speed is a combination of things which all happen when you get something going at thse kinds of speeds. The posting of RC-Cellar said that he used a low speed motor and a step up through pulley diferences to obtain speeds of 10,000 rpm and he had a relatively quiet operation. I must point out that most large horsepower routers do up to 30,000 rpms which is one reason the noise level is higher. I would say that if you used Rc's approach and used a belt drive to obtain higher speeds that you should be able to put some noise reduction housings around the high speed portion you might get what you are after. The big But here is that you have to have a really good bearing setup in the spindle to get there and that isn't going to happen for under 500 bucks. Sometimes if you look around for an old engraving machine you might be able to find one in your price range, who knows? Good luck Jshu

[RotarySMP]

Hi RC-Cellar,

I also have the Sherline industrial ER-16 spindle. It is supplied with the bearings preloaded for 2500 rpm, and they recommend you back off the preload for 10000 RPM. Did you do this?

I have this spindle mounted on an old Deckel engraver frame. It is powered by a three phase motor and VFD through four stepped pulleys, so I can go from about 5 RPM through to about 10000 rpm. This set up is nearly silent. I haven't used it enough yet to really get a good feel for it.

[Rhodan]

I just found out the Wolfgang engineering spindles use a draw bolt now, not a setscrew. Be interested to find out if anyone uses the drawbolt version and if they like it or not.