Morse tapers

[OCNC]

Would someone please explain to me how a morse taper is cut on a shaft and also how a socket taper is cut. I'm assumming that the socket is cut by drilling the appropriate straight hole and then using a tapered reamer to get the taper. The shaft I assume is cut by setting the cross-slide of a lathe at the appropriate angle. How is that angle set accurately? Is is done by using the scales or some other method?

Thanks!

Chris

[Walt@SGS.Inc]

When I set up on a morse taper, I use a sine plate and the Machinery's handbook to get close. Then I use HySpot Number 7 to get the final fit. Bluing and the proper taper gage is the best way to ensure you have the angle correct. Morse tapers are all a little different so be careful what angle you set up to. New tools can be used but it is best to use gages.
Regards Walt..
I use the machinery's handbook to get the correct taper per foot figures to work with, if you know what I mean.

[OCNC]

Thanks Walt! Am I correct about cutting a socket? Is it just a matter of using reamers?

Chris

Originally Posted by Walt@SGS.Inc When I set up on a morse taper, I use a sine plate and the Machinery's handbook to get close. Then I use HySpot Number 7 to get the final fit. Bluing and the proper taper gage is the best way to ensure you have the angle correct. Morse tapers are all a little different so be careful what angle you set up to. New tools can be used but it is best to use gages. Regards Walt.. I use the machinery's handbook to get the correct taper per foot figures to work with, if you know what I mean.

[Mcgyver]

depends on the taper, larger would be easier to bore. good idea to bore even if you are finishing with a reamer as drills wander.

I'm fortunate to have a taper attachment and made a graduated handwheel for the leadscrew so i can accurately set up tapers per foot. Another way that works well is to indicate to a commercially ground taper held in the lathe, ie in the headstock or between centres and adjust the compound. Trick there is to make sure indicator foot is dead on centre height. Regardless, they get checked like Walt says with some blue. When you do get it set perfectly, turn up a bunch of extra blanks and throw them in a drawer.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by OCNC Would someone please explain to me how a morse taper is cut on a shaft and also how a socket taper is cut...

Get a friend with a CNC to do it for you. Cutting tapers on a CNC is sooooo much easier than manual.

[Walt@SGS.Inc]

I have seen tapers cut with tapered reamers as well as taper attachments.
Personally, I am a grinder nut. Therefore, I would prefer to finish the taper with a grinder. Having said that, when are you going to harden the the piece you are making. I would think the hardness of the material during manufacture would dictate what you are using to finish the project.
You asked about morse tapers, therefore, I would assume the finish will have to be very good and the fit should be 90 to 100 % on a gage. To accomplish both of these, grinding may be in your future.
Regards Walt...

[OCNC]

My interest in this topic is related to a retrofit I'm trying to put together for a marine application. I have a small trimaran that currently uses straight sided socketed aluminum castings to join two aluminum extrusions at approximately right angles. The problem is that because the sockets are straight sided and a little slop is necessary for the fit up it's proven very difficult to eliminate movement in the connection during use. A more ideal solution would involve tapered sockets and mating pins. In the interest of building a full size mock up for this in plain steel I purchased some #3 MT x 5/8-16 adapters and some #3 MT x 2" soft sockets. These should be adequate for building the mock up in steel but the final version will need to be of more corrosion resistant material, either stainless steel or aluminum. My use doesn't require that the tapers match a standard. They only need to be consistent between themselves. Getting this result seems like it would be fairly easy to accomplish by using the same compound position for all parts. I was hoping I could find what I need in off the shelf parts but I haven't come across a source of tapers in specialty metals. Since this is not a machine tool application I'm not surprised. When I get the mock up built I'll probably be looking for someone on the Zone to produce the parts for me in the proper materials.

Thanks again for the info.

Chris

Originally Posted by Walt@SGS.Inc I have seen tapers cut with tapered reamers as well as taper attachments. Personally, I am a grinder nut. Therefore, I would prefer to finish the taper with a grinder. Having said that, when are you going to harden the the piece you are making. I would think the hardness of the material during manufacture would dictate what you are using to finish the project. You asked about morse tapers, therefore, I would assume the finish will have to be very good and the fit should be 90 to 100 % on a gage. To accomplish both of these, grinding may be in your future. Regards Walt...

[Geof]

One problem you may encounter using a taper similar to the Morse taper is that the angle is so shallow it tends to be self locking; you may have great difficulty pulling them apart. They are intended to be self locking in their intended application and they have a tang and slot so a taper drift can be inserted to separated them.

[OCNC]

I was actually wondering about this. I'm planning on greasing the tapers with Tef-Gel and using the tang and drift to seperate them. I went for the Morse tapers because they were off the shelf parts and I could get the four sets that I need for the mock up for $75 including the shipping. I'm actually inclined to use a much steeper taper but I didn't want to get into custom parts without some testing.

Chris

Originally Posted by Geof One problem you may encounter using a taper similar to the Morse taper is that the angle is so shallow it tends to be self locking; you may have great difficulty pulling them apart. They are intended to be self locking in their intended application and they have a tang and slot so a taper drift can be inserted to separated them.

[Walt@SGS.Inc]

Before you go too far, I think I would try you grease or lubricant on a taper that you expect to end up with. When grinding number 5 morse tapers, if you use a little too much bluing, the "gage" you are using will not lockup in the spindle (female taper) it will just kinda bounce right back out. Then as you remove the bluing little by little, soon the taper will seat and lock up like it is supposed to.
Another thought, 1/2 inch per foot taper "approximately", allows for a lot of movement along the center line of these tapers. Size for size, when one of the tapers is changed (diameter), the male taper will go into the female taper by a large ratio. For example, if I were to grind .001 inches out of a spindle, the tool holder would move about .010 inches deeper. Keep this in mind when making up these tapers and allow for this movement.
Many times while grinding morse tapers, the tang area is the first thing that causes trouble. The tang bottoms out where the wedge is supposed to fit and the tool cannot go deeper unless the spindle is relieved further to allow for the tool to move deeper as well as to make room for the wedge to get behind the tang.
I ramble, I"m Sorry.
Regards Walt.

[Geof]

I had a thought about your application. If you go to Home Depot or someplace similar in the paint section you should be able to find extender poles for paint rollers. These have a large profile coarse pitch tapered thread stem one end and socket the other and just screw together. Perhaps you could incorporate something like this in your connector.

[OCNC]

Thanks for your additional comments. The fact that greasing the taper prevents lock up actually works in my favor for this application. The taper will be held in the socket with a couple of draw bolts. I lubed one of the setups this morning with anhydrous lanolin and noticed that the male taper protrudes from the socket almost a 1/4" more than it did before with the dry fit. I put the whole thing out in a todays rain to see if I'll be able to protect it from rusting to any decent degree. It would ultimately be nice to have the draw bolt run right through the center of the male taper and screw into the bottom of the socket. Right now though I just want to prove the concept and make sure it warrants more expensive parts.

Chris

Originally Posted by Walt@SGS.Inc Before you go too far, I think I would try you grease or lubricant on a taper that you expect to end up with. When grinding number 5 morse tapers, if you use a little too much bluing, the "gage" you are using will not lockup in the spindle (female taper) it will just kinda bounce right back out. Then as you remove the bluing little by little, soon the taper will seat and lock up like it is supposed to. Another thought, 1/2 inch per foot taper "approximately", allows for a lot of movement along the center line of these tapers. Size for size, when one of the tapers is changed (diameter), the male taper will go into the female taper by a large ratio. For example, if I were to grind .001 inches out of a spindle, the tool holder would move about .010 inches deeper. Keep this in mind when making up these tapers and allow for this movement. Many times while grinding morse tapers, the tang area is the first thing that causes trouble. The tang bottoms out where the wedge is supposed to fit and the tool cannot go deeper unless the spindle is relieved further to allow for the tool to move deeper as well as to make room for the wedge to get behind the tang. I ramble, I"m Sorry. Regards Walt.