Does China pose a threat to your industry ?

[jxdxwx]

China poses a threat to my industry as most of my customers are OEMs that can now produce their products and equipment overseas.
Automation and material handling in the USA has really simmered down quite a bit regarding the global outsourcing of PCB assembly.

How does everyone else see their respective areas of trade affected by the cheaper chinese labor ?

....JW

[ViperTX]

China in manufacturing and India in Software.....soon China will also be a threat in Software.

[sanddrag]

I love China. Due to affordability, it has probably increased the number of home machinists tenfold. If we had no china, there's no way I could afford a lathe at home. I don't care where it comes from as long as it is of decent quality and affordable.

[dertsap]

has no effect on me in the macining trade we do quality work!
the trade boards are going to allow trade with china to keep cheap product for consumers , the more people that are buying the better it is for the overall economy , in a bad economy you have to keep the money moving or it only gets worse , i wouldn t sweat it too much , soon enough there will be crack downs on freights and freight charges will be imposed , bottom line is noone is going to let china get too big to handle , i have yet to see true quality come from china , i ve seen high end machinist measuring tools such as mytutoyo that have been produced in china and they are loosing their quality , guys are going to see that and look for quality elsewhere and not look back , china is going to kill the big brands that have plants there because the stuff is crap , and the sooner the companies realize it and pull out of there , they may save their reputation for quality
ive had to remachine parts that were made in china for a customer of ours because apperantly drawings are not universal or they are absolute idiots ,because there were complete features missing

[Dan B]

I'm old enough to remember when "Made in Japan" meant cheap products with poor quality. That certainly has changed. China will evolve the same way, I think. In 20 years from now, "Made in China" will mean something.

Dan

[jxdxwx]

Originally Posted by Dan B I'm old enough to remember when "Made in Japan" meant cheap products with poor quality. That certainly has changed. China will evolve the same way, I think. In 20 years from now, "Made in China" will mean something. Dan

Dan, I tend to agree with you more than I do the other guy.

It will be easier to resolve quality issues than it will be to bring any considerable amount of manufacturing back to the US.

Japan is a small and friendly country. China is a BIG country, cant say they are as friendly. (regulations)

As far as poor quality goes.... I have also had to re-work china parts, but then again I've have had to re-work american made as well.
The real estate on this side of the world is no different than the real estate on that side of the world and if it was the land aint making the parts, it is the people.
We are being schooled in economics not geography.

Also can name several shops here in the USA where I will not put work due to a terrible quality record.
I agree, this world needs quality work and in some cases will only allow quality work. The problem is we are buying cheaper, less quality products from china (wal-mart) on an ongoing basis.

Looks like next year we will also be buying chinese cars at walmart prices too.
Does that affect the economy where you live ? Yes.
Everyone needs to think about their services and their products and take an honest look down the road. Where do you fit in all of this ?

Are you currently fighting price wars with china ?
Do you provide a service or a product to another company that is currently in price wars with china or soon will be ?

Our economy works because we buy a new car every five years, a new washer and dryer every ten years, a new dvd player every 3 years and a new computer every two years.
We did all this the last 10-15 years while watching our pennies the last few.

While we were watching our pennies the chinese took steps to capitalize. If we are no longer bringing in the kind of money that we did when the economy was strong, and we are not spending nearly as much on ourselves and when we do we are not buying american, then how do we expect to perpetuate our own economy ?

Breastfeeding the illegal mexicans cant be helping our situation can it ? They arent paying taxes, they are consuming taxes and giving the money to china via wal-mart.

This is complicated, I dont have an answer.
Cant really tell you guys that we all need to pull together and buy american made products because we would all starve before we made a difference. And it is hard to pay premium prices without the hard earned factory dollar.
We would have to do it at $8.00 per hour before long anyway.

Lets just be careful who we vote for.
I dont care if it is GW Bush or Hillary Clinton. Republican or Democrat. We need to vote someone that will fix our lopsided situations in illegal immigrants and monopolizing companies (and countries).
We could jack the import taxes real high to pay for the food stamps and welfare, but that wont fix the fact we will be competing against cheap labor here and abroad this time around. Let's all learn the phrase "would you like fries with that?" Only this time we need to say it in spanish.

We have kids and grandkids to think about.
Dont let my choice of words or sarcasm take away from the real issue.

.JW

[JerryFlyGuy]

JW, what you say is true, and I agree completely. I've been wondering about this for a few years now.
My train of thought however see's a change in the future, not of poorer times but of prosparity due to demand. In the last year, China has become a net IMPORTER of oil, this is the first time its happened.. and its the last time they will ever export for a long time.. The government has allowed the average 'Joe' to own a car which is going to creat more demand for that commodity.

China is getting closer to the world standard of living and I do think that over time, China is going to have a huge demand for 'stuff' which I'm not sure is going to make exporting as much of a prime concern for them [ or at least not as much as it is right now]. There are more free standing cranes in Shanghi right now than all the rest of the world combined [ or so the stat says] so things are definatly getting rolling over there. I'm sure they will never stop exporting, but what is it, that we have over here, that they don't over there?? 1 thing comes to mind right away.. [ its the same issue in Japan] Space.. room..

China is growing [population]way faster than all of North America, we have the room to creat their food.. and trust me.. in the future... they are going to need it. I recently heard a stat that is kinda scary.. 5 yr's ago there was a couple years worth of food stock's stored up [ raw grains etc] now.. there is approx 69 DAYS worth of food stocks.. This is an ever changing number but it does go to show that things are looking up on that front. Farmers like to buy products which can be serviced here, and locally made [ north america] stuff is primarily what they do buy.. [ last I heard JD and Case equipment was, for the most part, build over here still] This is one industry that they will have some trouble taking from us.

Anyway.. that kinda got rambly.. and off topic.. but I had to add my 2 cents

Jerry

[CNCRob]

I try to stay away from chinese made goods. Seems like everytime I buy something made overthere anymore it always tears up less then 4 months later.

[jxdxwx]

Originally Posted by JerryFlyGuy JW, what you say is true, and I agree completely. I've been wondering about this for a few years now. My train of thought however see's a change in the future, not of poorer times but of prosparity due to demand. In the last year, China has become a net IMPORTER of oil, this is the first time its happened.. and its the last time they will ever export for a long time.. The government has allowed the average 'Joe' to own a car which is going to creat more demand for that commodity. China is getting closer to the world standard of living and I do think that over time, China is going to have a huge demand for 'stuff' which I'm not sure is going to make exporting as much of a prime concern for them [ or at least not as much as it is right now]. There are more free standing cranes in Shanghi right now than all the rest of the world combined [ or so the stat says] so things are definatly getting rolling over there. I'm sure they will never stop exporting, but what is it, that we have over here, that they don't over there?? 1 thing comes to mind right away.. [ its the same issue in Japan] Space.. room.. China is growing [population]way faster than all of North America, we have the room to creat their food.. and trust me.. in the future... they are going to need it. I recently heard a stat that is kinda scary.. 5 yr's ago there was a couple years worth of food stock's stored up [ raw grains etc] now.. there is approx 69 DAYS worth of food stocks.. This is an ever changing number but it does go to show that things are looking up on that front. Farmers like to buy products which can be serviced here, and locally made [ north america] stuff is primarily what they do buy.. [ last I heard JD and Case equipment was, for the most part, build over here still] This is one industry that they will have some trouble taking from us. Anyway.. that kinda got rambly.. and off topic.. but I had to add my 2 cents Jerry

Jerry,

Very interesting points you make. I do not dis-agree.
China is building their economy. Think I've heard it is growing by 13% last year. That is huge. Because that is CHINA. Not japan. If you look at a globe you will realize the size of china compared to other countries.

I have heard of the population being overwhelming there but cannot easily agree that we have more room to manufacture here without looking into it a little further.

With the size of china and its population 13% is a much bigger number than any of us can comprehend.
Dont think we got anywhere near that even during the boom 10 years ago.

As far as the USA exporting to china, They are shipping billions to our millions. Something there needs to change.

The employees may be being paid more than they ever have before but that dont mean they are being paod well enough to buy any of our american products that are still being produced over here.

All my point boils down to is that we are supporting more and more unskilled laborers and at the same time we are shipping our skilled labor jobs overseas. Minimum wage is $5.15 in Texas. Some skilled guys may be competing for those jobs in the very near future.

Jerry, you do pose a point. Maybe we are being schooled in social studies and the language we need to learn is Chinese as a second language and english as a third.

In this day and age people like you and I can compete with most manufacturers.
We have more and more customers visit our ebay stores every day.
Here in the information age we can get funding, engineer, prototype, market, manufacture and sell our wares globally without leaving our homes.
That is the way we all need to be thinking in order to maintain even our most modest lifestyles.

That brings to mind another rant (as if I needed more to vent about)
China does not respect our software licensing or our Copyrights and U.S. patents.
Americans dont care, we buy cheap.

Ebay seems to be able to sniff out illegal software after a few days (a lot of business can go on in a few days), but Ebay cannot as easily determine what patents have been infringed upon and what have not.

How many iPod knock offs can you find on ebay? Yikes! thats how many.
Skip walmart and ebay all together. look at websites like alibaba.com. You can buy anything want and cut out the middle man. As an example check out the gas powered RC cars, you can buy them by the container if you want.
Some are IDENTICAL knock offs to American made Traxxis products such as T-Maxx etc..
These products are being made available to american citizens and they will ship to us also. What individual is going to drive 10,000 r/c cars? Not me. Maybe myself and another 9,999 American taxpayers who dont want to pay $500.00 for some domestic product that will only collect dust in a few weeks anyway.
In that one container goes 5 million dollars and with it goes 25 US jobs.

That was just an example of what a single american can do to the economy by purchasing large lots, or a few americans can do buy purchasing small lots.

I dont even know if Traxxas manufactures in the US anymore. But at least they engineer and hold their patents in the USA. And taking a five million dollar hit will mean lost jobs.

....JW

[jxdxwx]

Originally Posted by CNCRob I try to stay away from chinese made goods. Seems like everytime I buy something made overthere anymore it always tears up less then 4 months later.

Rob,
You gone and done it now. You challenged me to challenge you. (for fun)

It is nearly impossible to "stay away" from chinese goods.
So just for fun, let me challenge you to look a little closer at your surroundings.

Start with the computer. As a whole it may have been assembled in the USA (maybe) if you bought a Dell. But the 10 or so major components were made where ? Flip it over, un-screw it, find out.

Better yet, try to find something made in the USA.

Look at your...

TV
cable/satellite receiver
VCR/DVD player
coffeemaker
toaster
phone
cell phone
desk lamp
ceiling fan
fireplace pokers
digital camera

Feel free to add to this short list.

If you find something made in the USA please post it along with the brand name and a round about age. Dont worry about a list for products of other countries of origin.

While becoming more aware of your surroundings you may even be able to save the "Made in USA" shoppers some footwork.

Good luck.

JW.

[Bowman]

America was built on making things no pun intended. Now our main industry seems to be health care and will be till all the boomers kick it. Then I would bet we see a surplus of Medical people looking for jobs like our manufacturing employees of today. A country can not be sustained on service industries alone. If the only manufacturing jobs to end up not leaving the country over time are construction jobs since they have to be where the building is going on to work we are surely screwed because we are about to legalize millions of construction workers. So sure your job may go to China or India but there will always be local construction needed right? Only problem is those jobs are taken to but they came here and took them we didn't even have to ship them overseas.

You would almost swear the politicians and greedy corps are fond of shooting themselves in both feet. These types of business practices are just right for a body called Congress and to them this is actually Progress. Progress to what I am still not sure but lets see how much tax money they get when another 25% of the workers in the US make 1/4 what they used to because there are no jobs of any value.

So is China posing a threat to my industry? China is posing a threat to all our industries. Except for the Chinese Buffet industry they seem to have a monopoly on that in the US already as well.

[jxdxwx]

Bowman, Good to see you understand.

The china buffet thing is off the mark a little, other than that you are right on target.

.JW