Window cleaner as cutting fluid

[voxelman]

Recently while counter sinking a large number of holes in .09 aluminum (not sure of the alloy) I became frustrated with my slow progress. Having read about cutting fluids I looked around our shop (primarily electronics) for some fluid that might serve the purpose. On a hunch I took a bottle of window cleaner with ammonia and gave the work piece a couple of squirts. I couldn't believe the difference it made. The time was cut to about a 1/4 of doing the work dry. Why does this stuff work so well?

[NC Cams]

Aluminum has a high proclivity to sieze/gall when being cut or machined.

Just about any lubricant (even window cleaner) would/should prevent the aluminum from adhering to the cutter. I suspect the alcohol and the wetting agent in the cleaner did the most to help your situation.

Water with a bit of diswashing detergent would have probably worked too.

You could have used light oil, Dexron ATF and/or bar soap rubbed on the cutter and have probably seen the same improvement.

The Dexron trick works wonders when you're using carbide burrs to cut aluminum with a die grinder - a trick I learned from cylinder head porters.

The bar soap deal worked when I didn't have any ATF lying around.

[Geof]

If you use something like window cleaner and are worried about keeping your parts looking nice wash then off with water and dry them. The ammonia in window cleaner is slightly alkaline and it can etch aluminum.

Incidentally I can also attest to Dexron ATF. We used it by the gallon; not all at once but drop by drop, when all our production drilling was done with jigs and fixture on bench drills.

[voxelman]

Thanks for the quick replys guys. I'll give some of these other ideas a try. I suspect these will also help keeping files from loading up and my saber saw from binding.

[dertsap]

i would be carefull where you use the dexron because a lot of rubber seals and such will get eaten up quite quickly from that stuff

[Geof]

Originally Posted by dertsap i would be carefull where you use the dexron because a lot of rubber seals and such will get eaten up quite quickly from that stuff

What kind of rubber? I have used dexron as the lubricant in an air system with neoprene cup seals and O-rings. It is used in auto transmissions and I have often used it as engine lubricant to prevent sticky valve lifters and never had problems.

[dertsap]

heres one example of many : years ago a friend of mine heard that tranny fluid and brake fluid are the same thing ,so he added tranny fluid to his break system , the tranny fluid destroyed every seal in the system , we changed everything from the front to the back ,
it swells the seals

[Geof]

Originally Posted by dertsap heres one example of many : years ago a friend of mine heard that tranny fluid and brake fluid are the same thing ,so he added tranny fluid to his break system , the tranny fluid destroyed every seal in the system , we changed everything from the front to the back , it swells the seals

Yes! I think the seals in brake systems are natural rubber or something very similar; even ordinary lube oil will destroy them. Transmission fluid and brake fluid are very different.

[NC Cams]

Rubber and neoprene are NOT the same thing - close but no cigar.

Lip and shaft seals in Ford and GM transmissions are QUITE compatible with Dexron as they are designed to work with it.

The Mopar trans fluid (and seals contained therein) are NOT compatible with Dexron.

Even the seals in the Ford/GM transmissions do swell a bit when they see Dexron. This is intended as the seals tend to shrivel up when subjected to temp for long periods. The Dexron has seal conditioners which actually "protect" the seals from long term degredation.

It should be noted that many manual transmissions and some FWD differentials are now using Dexron for lube as opposed to the older 90w or 90/140 gear oils. The stuff is very well fortified for MANY uses not the least of which is a relatively inexpensive rust inhibitor (it does have anti-oxydizing/anti rust agents in it as well).

A real all/general purpose lubricant that is easy to get and quite affordable.....

BTW, brake fluids are alcohol based and designed to absorb moisture to keep it from rusting the system - it will do it to a point until it is saturated then it will rust the daylights ouf of stuff. Thus the 'rubber' sealing agents in the system are specially formulated.

Yes, adding motor oil and/or ATF to brake systems is QUITE unwise and will result in the need for an expesive overhaul of the entire system. Likewise, should antifreeze get mixed with ATF (leaking trans cooler/heat exchanger) you can expect EXPENSIVE overhaul to auto trans for same reason - seal damage and/or contamimation.

Morale of the story: some lubes can be very multi-purpose in use but some can't/shouldn't be used for anything but their primary intent. Be prepared for the consequences if you choose to experimentally use it "off label"....

[dertsap]

Geof thats my point there are vaious rubber seals some can handle tranny fluid and some can t , he learned the hardway they are very different
the last time i dealt with transmision troubles i spent a fair amount of time covered in the stuff and i think i absorbed a lot of it because i was sick for a couple of days from it , i ve been covered with a lot of oils and what not over the years (explains why i glo in the dark)and never experienced that before , even the smell of it nosiates me now

but judging by the feel of it in comparision to regular cutting oils i can very well see it working

[leberen]

Anyone try soy based cutting oils? Elm makes SoyEasy Unicut, It smells a little funny but works well, a gallon goes a long way. The only complaint I have is it's texture when on hands.

[miljnor]

Pre-cutting fluid era we used kerosene or deisle fuel (which is kerosene with oil) on aluminum.

And no it won't light up! (of course this assumes your not a moron and are smoking when you machine it)

While not legal in a production shop in California I still use it in the home as it work very well.