Endmill Preferences

[Miksak]

I am having a little trouble with choosing the appropriate endmill selection for the jobs I am doing on a regular basis...

I work with a lot of aluminum (mostly 6061, some 5052 & 3003) a lot of soft steel (mostly 1018, some 12l14) and some stainless (mostly 17-4A and 303)

I am guessing this is pretty standard fare, nothing exotic, but the problem i am having is choosing the proper tooling for each material...

Right now I only stock 2 kinds of endmills:

SGS Z-Carb SGS Z-Carb Solid Carbide End Mills
I use these for anything ferrous...

SGS S-Carb http://www.sgstool.com/catalogs/PDFsections/S-Carb.pdf
I use these for any aluminum and brass...

The problem is they cost over $100/tool for a 1/2" endmill and the tool life in some applications leaves a lot to be desired...

I was hoping for some recommendations, I run a VF-4 CNC VMC mostly flood coolant, and have a max spindle RPM of 7500...

Any suggestions?

[fizzissist]

Maybe others have had wonderful results with SGS, I've had absolutely terrible luck with them.
What finally turned me against them is a 304SS job, milling an O-ring groove. Was going through SGS endmills like crazy, and on parts I couldn't afford to scrap. On the first part of a batch, the SGS endmill broke 1/3 of the way through the groove cycle. I was out of them, so replaced it with a Dataflute equivalent.

I ran the rest off the job with that one mill.

Two brands I dislike are SGS and Melin.

[Miksak]

I haven't heard much about data flute, probably because MSC Industrial supply doesn't carry them I'll check our other (local) tool distributors...

Is anyone familiar with GARR Tool?

What brands/ product line do you use?

[fizzissist]

Story as told by my supplier is that Dataflute was sold, and after waiting a contractual time requirement, the originator started up a company with the same technology as he'd used in Dataflute..and called the company Helical.
True or not, the endmills are pretty good, though I never did a direct A-B comparison to see for myself if they were in fact the same quality.

About Us | Helical Solutions

MSC carries OSG, which I like. If it doesn't list the brand in the catalog, I shy away. If you're running a home hobby enterprise, you're more flexible in buying the cheap stuff.

For professional jobs, a cheap tool is never a bargain. (not to suggest that paying more in and of itself is better) I like being able to call the manufacturer's tech support if I need to...as I did with Emuge, and got dialed in INSTANTLY on a blind 0-80 thread in stainless! They were GREAT!!

[Miksak]

thanks I'll look into helical and OSG...

But I guess I should rephrase my question...

My question really is, am I using the right tool for the material? and should I have a broader range to choose from? If so, what tools perform best in what materials? the price tag doesnt matter all that much, I just hate watching $ go out the window when I burn up a tool way too early (I suspect because it wasn't the right tool for the material)...

I am really a CNC Newbie, I ran a manual series 1 bridgeport for 5 yrs before switching to CNC 9 months ago... So I am still discovering things like the effects of too much stickout, coatings that require heat to activate, beginner things...

So I guess I was hoping for "In 17-4, I like to use..." or "when flooding coolant, avoid...." or "On 1018, you can get by with..."

Sorry I am kind of a pain in the butt...

Thanks for the help fizzissist.

[fizzissist]

Making the transition from manual to CNC seems daunting, and there are some approaches that must be changed when automating.... And you're getting a taste first hand why you have to be a good machinist to be a good CNC programmer/set-up man.

The tool question is more type specific than brand specific..since each manufacturer has a range of tools that each suit a different material better.

Generally, for aluminum you'll want uncoated carbides so the chips don't stick, for steels you'll want to run them dry with lots of air to evacuate chips. You'll also be climb cutting almost all the time (it's easier on the tool as it exits the cut...carbide doesn't like being "unloaded" instantaneously)

Don't be shy about calling a manufacturer's tech support. That's what they're there for!!! They WANT you to like their tools, and buy more. They're competing with other manufacturers, so they have to be honest at least to a degree and give you good working parameters, otherwise they know you'll bail and go all chinese on 'em. ..............That said.....

Going to SGS's own literature.....they have their own ideas ...
"Application Tips: Avoid re-milling chips
Tool holders with adequate gripping pressure and TIR are required Stub solid holders or zero length ER style collet holders are recommended for heavy stock removal using tools over 1/2 inch (12mm)
Ramping or spiral plunging are the preferred entry methods into pockets (approximately 6 degrees @ 50% normal feed)
Water soluble oil is recommended when machining difficult materials such as stainless steel, high temp. alloys, etc.
Set-up rigidity is especially critical during heavy roughing"

http://www.sgstool.com/products/zcar...ROCHURE_LR.pdf

SGS says wet. Most everybody else says dry. .. They do say that you can use a 6 deg ramp angle...twice what I usually use.

If you're going to use SGS, it looks like you're in the ballpark....if that helps you relax a little!

[Delw]

Maybe others have had wonderful results with SGS, I've had absolutely terrible luck with them.
What finally turned me against them is a 304SS job, milling an O-ring groove. Was going through SGS endmills like crazy, and on parts I couldn't afford to scrap. On the first part of a batch, the SGS endmill broke 1/3 of the way through the groove cycle. I was out of them, so replaced it with a Dataflute equivalent.

I ran the rest off the job with that one mill.

Two brands I dislike are SGS and Melin.

Me too I havent had any luck with them at all.

I haven't heard much about data flute, probably because MSC Industrial supply doesn't carry them I'll check our other (local) tool distributors...

Is anyone familiar with GARR Tool?

What brands/ product line do you use?

Garr tool and harvey tool is pretty much the only endmills I use in my shop.
harvey tools for alum anything under 1/4"
gar for everything ss nickles alum etc etc

[Packers]

hanita invented the variable pitch endmill, just saying

[lukehonor]

For our steels (416 S.S., 1018, 1117, 12L14) and all aluminum we use YG-1 end mills. They are affordable, they stock locally around Chicagoland, they have a great selection and they work great. I have had YG-1 endmills outperform more expensive brands on certain applications. YG-1 is not the cheapest brand out there, but they are quite affordable.

For more complicated applications/harder material, I've had great luck with Kennametal's coated, eccentric flute endmills for roughing and finishing. They have a great 3 flute rougher that I hog through material with. KC5025 grade endmill (if I remember correctly).

Don't use monster tool or the cheapest tools out there. Just my opinion.

Good luck to you.