Machinist's level....about?

[Bloy2004]

What makes a machinist's level "different" than any other level? I've never seen one close up, but does the bubble deviate at a greater rate when moving away from a "level" indication? It seems the level is still up for interpretation from eyesight. I'm thinking that it may be a good investment.

Someone elaborate on this please.....

Bloy

P.S. usually, the regular level is end for ended to check for level...especially if the bubble is known to be off.

[lerman]

Yup. The significant difference is that the bubble is more sensitive. Also, the one I have is made of steel and has machined flat surfaces.

Ken

[Mcgyver]

the machinist level is adjustable, and very sensitive. The grand daddy is the Starrett master precision level. the surface is scraped flat and the glass is graduated with 10 second markings - thats .0005 over a foot! here's a pic using it to check/adjust the mini level in a wheel balancer i picked up.

In one sense its a PITA tool - expensive and hardly ever gets used but when you really need it you want a good one. The time it really shines is when you have to level a lathe - using the convenient reference of "level" to remove twist in the lathe bed. There are articles on making one - probably the best route as you'd never get your money's worth out a new one using it in small shop

[Bloy2004]

If going the "used" route, would it be advisable ? I mean, if the level is out of true when obtained, can it be reconditioned with a resonable effort?
I'm leveling a router table rail system and would like to be precise. Then too, the table itself will need to be trued to the gantry/spindle travel....although it has been said to just route/mill the table bed to get the surface perpendicular. However, the table steel frame needs to be level for table inserts to change the clearance and mode of use.
..just inquiring for the best solution to level things around here.

Thanks for your info,

Bloy

[One of Many]

For the most part Machinist levels utilize a graduated vial. This helps establish a reference between 2 points based on the resolution of the graduations. From that, we can deduce (within reason) how much change it should take to correct the actual level based on the distance between the objects footings. Be that a machine, a fixture or something to be machined on a table known to already be level.

Going used is not so bad if you can inspect it first hand in the flesh. Placing it on a good clean flat surface, regardless if it is level but within a line or 2, then rotating it 180deg will show how repeatable the vial is if the bubble retuns to the same offset on the opposite end of the vial. Don't forget there is some settling time with these bubbles. I prefer to let them set for 15-30 seconds after the bubble has come to a rest in critical applications if you expect reliable readings.

There is an adjustable screw within the body that tilts the vial in relation to the frame body. Before making any adjustments the levels reference surface(bottom face) should be checked for damage. Any impact, burrs or garbage stuck to the surface will influence the reading. That won't take much on a .0005/foot level. If it rocks and the bubble goes flying unstable, it won't be reliable, but normally attributed to something obvious.

The true level of most cutting machines cannot always be established based on an arbitrary reference to water. There are running clearances, weight transfers etc. that will be the real world conditions to get true cutting alignment often regardless of level. Not typical of home shop equipment, but I think you get the idea.

DC

[trubleshtr]

I bought mine from ebay for $100 bucks, cheap considering the precision. Found this guy on ebay also, book looks intriguing.....

http://cgi.ebay.ca/HOW-TO-MAKE-A-MAC...QQcmdZViewItem

[Bloy2004]

notice: gone to e-Bay....be back soon.

Bloy

P.S. Looking for......glass tubing! ....if no levels offered

[Mcgyver]

Observe this ebay sellers name and make sure you NEVER buy his stuff. It is almost ALL in print stuff at prices significantly above publishers list!! The inexpensive Lindsay reprint books are a favorite. He actually photoshop's out the Lindsay logo in the pictures so the un-initiated aren't inclined to google and see for themselves.

Margins and markups are part of business - I’m a die hard capitalist, but plain and simply tricking people with no valid value add is crooked and wrong.

His by it now price is $44.95.
Amazon: $39
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

Why its trickery, is that he's misleading you that the book is HOW TO MAKE A MACHINIST'S PRECISION LEVEL by Howard Kelly. I am 99% sure the book is Projects Four, edited by Joe Rice, a collection of HSM articles. I have this book and would be 100% sure except I’m not at home - all the pictures look familiar. The Kelly piece is one of many re-published articles in this book. In fact is the article I was thinking of in my earlier post. This guy misleads you in what he is selling, as it would be too easy to see otherwise via comparative shopping that he is a complete rip off artist

This subject has been covered numerous times in metal working forums - know what you are buying

<rant over>

By all means buy a used one, the worst that can happen is you re-scrape the base and adjust the vial….and you don’t need the master precision (but its nice), overkill for a router, a regular machinists level will do fine. Search precision levels on ebay, there are many. Btw I think it’s a neat application – routing the bottom won’t do any good if the two rails are dipping and diving like a couple of dolphins and the level will reveal a lot.

[Mcgyver]

k, my rant continues. here's the book directly from the publisher and the articles are all listed including the sensitive level one.

http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/sto...t=1&maxrows=10

ohojim exposed again
<rant finally over>

[pminmo]

What make them sensitive, is the vial different on a machinist's level than a carpenters level?

[DieGuy]

Originally Posted by Bloy2004 If going the "used" route, would it be advisable ? I mean, if the level is out of true when obtained, can it be reconditioned with a resonable effort? I'm leveling a router table rail system and would like to be precise. Then too, the table itself will need to be trued to the gantry/spindle travel....although it has been said to just route/mill the table bed to get the surface perpendicular. However, the table steel frame needs to be level for table inserts to change the clearance and mode of use. ..just inquiring for the best solution to level things around here. Thanks for your info, Bloy

Actually the adjustment is quite easy if you have a flat surface that you can adjust for level. By flipping the level end for end the bubble needs to read the same. buy doing this over and over a few times and making the bubble act the same end for end the level is then adjusted. A good flat surface plate is a must though.

[Bloy2004]

Back as a teenager I used to blow glass and work with chemistry dodads...there was a hobby shop in town that specialized in chem glassware and tubing. I did this until I was pushing a glass tube into a rubber cork for a boiling flask and the tube broke and went into (and out again) my finger leaving a gaping slice. After taping it shut, a week later while delivering sunday newspapers I broke it open again. ....anyway...just a story.
But I DID make some of those pressure sensitive glass "submarines" that equalized at a depth when you pressed on the liquid containers holding the "sub".
I think a so very slightly bent glass tube mounted on a straight beam might be able to be made....without buying the book!

Geeesh... another delay and turn of direction before completing the router project.... :frown:

Yah, a good used machinists level will do!

Bloy