Picture this....

[UKRobotics]

You want to build your own cnc mill and router...

You have little or no good quality tools already......

You have just moved out to the country and have a small barn (bit bigger than a double garage with more celing height) with a thick concrete floor, lights, a radio and single phase power..........

You do not have unlimited funds, but understand it makes more sence to buy the highest quality tools you can get which will last a lifetime rather than getting cheaper ones which will break and need repleacing often........

SO, with that in mind please tell me what tools you would buy to turn this blank canvas into a state of the art hobby workshop, bearing in mind the tools most useful for cnc type applications.

When I say tools I mean everything - hand tools, power tools, measuring devices, and heavy machinery. Please also reccomed your prefered brands and suppliers (uk).

The reason I'm asking this is because I'm in this very situation myself, have virtually no tools good enough to be worth keeping, and want to kit out my new workshop with all new very high quality tools .. think along the lines of sealey & snap on etc. Since joining these forums I have learnt that there are a lot of useful tools in existence that I had never previously come accross (dial gauges for measuring backlash etc) So an insight into peoples most favoured and useful tools are would greatly help me choosing tools for my new workshop and hopefully will save time and reduce the chances of buying poor quality brands or tools that i'll never use.

[wizard]

Hi Dom;

Sounds like tough luck -- NOT!

In any event it is far to easy to get wrapped up in buying tools and end up not using them or finding they aren't a good fit for your interests. In your case you describe your good fortune but you fail to tell us whats up. That is what are your hobby interest exactly?

In any event I would not get to wrapped up in CNC for all of your machines. You will need a manual lathe and mill or atleast units that can be used effectively both ways. CNC is nice if you have the code ready to go but some things are just faster done manually.

As far as hand tools go you will get all sorts of arguments here. My preference is Starret when I can afford it for measuring tools. Frankly some of the lesser lines of measuring tools leave a lot to be desired. The other high quality lines are not much cheaper than Starret.

Snap On makes nice stuff but so do alot of other manufactures. Actually in the US I prefer Armstrong or some of the other industrial suppliers. Armstrong, Williams, Urrea, Werra and Allen come to mind when thinking about hand tools such as wrenchs and socket sets. In any event it is best to budget the good money where it is likely to be used the most. Thus my suggestion is to invest in a set of 1/4" 3/8" & 1/2" drives sockets and a set of box/open end wrenches - metric and standard of course.

One thing to understand though is that tools will not last a life time, depending on usage they will wear out. Further anything can be broken with the right cheater bar Things like screw drivers and such are best considered expenables. That doesn't mean buying cheap just that you can't expect them to last forever.

As to machine tools that is up to your interests. Many do fine with Sherline or similar hardware. The Chinese stuff is a bargain right now in the USA but that is largely due to lack fo built in quality. If you have the money a Hardinge and Bridgeport combo is hard to beat.

The other issue is that you can't expect to build a shop around just a lathe and a mill. Support equipment is required. This all costs money.

As to the CNC router that of course can be very handy! But you have so many options for specific usages that again it would not be possible to comment to much.

Dave

[jkeyser14]

Just so you know, Allen is no longer in business. We just tried to get some of our tools replaced under warrantee just to find out they are no more.

[UKRobotics]

My hobby interests are everything really. Over the last 8 years I have been heavily involved in robotic combat, robotwars (battlebots) etc but I consider myself a bit of an inventor and in my spare time have made everything from electric scooters to water pumps.

While I'm still at uni at the moment, I plan to start my own business in the near future specialising in CNC machining providing a service for people who want custom parts for what ever their purpose will be. I have already proved the feasability of this with a small cnc mill that I have at the moment and now I have the larger workshop I can replace that with a bridgeport series 2 or similar machine.

To that extent, and as per my original question I need to buy quite a wide variety of tools to cover a huge number of potential projects.

I have complied a list of everything I can think of off the top of my head but I'm sure I have missed some essentials that perhaps you might be able to suggest.

Hand tools & measurement
Big red tool chest
Rivet gun
Rivnut gun
Industrial crimping tool
Large glue gun
Digital Vernier
Digital micrometer
1m stainless steel rule
300mm stainless steel rule
Engineers square x2
Temp. controlled solder station
Selection of hammers & mallet
Punch Set incl. centre punch
Cobalt drill set
Cobalt reamer set
Cobalt tap & die set
Ratchet spanner set
Metric & imperial spanner set
Metric and imperial socket set
Large screwdriver set
Precision screwdriver set
Allen keys (metric and imperial)
Allen keys (ball end)
Torx drivers
Torx drivers (with hole in middle)

Small Electric Tools
Makita cordless electric drill
Makita corded drill
Jigsaw
4" Angle grinder x 2 or 3 (cuttiing, grinding, sanding)
9" Angle Grinder


Big tools
Abrasive Chopsaw
Floor standing pillar drill
Vertical band saw
Horizontal band saw
Lathe
Non abrasive chopsaw

I know there are things I've missed off this list some of which i dont know the name of, and other things I dont know exist.

eg.

dial gauges ... never heard of them until i came accross cnc zone, here everyone talks about them. still I dont know where to get them from, if there are different types I need and how to tell what is a good quality one and what is a naff one.

those things used to de-burr the edges of aluminium parts which is effectivly little more than a specialised odd shaped stanley (exacto?) knife.

I asked an engineer a while back if there was such a device that could tap perfectly straight holes in large flat pieces of metal, I rememer saying there was somthing that you could put in a drill press which would do just that and it had a special name which I cant remember now.

Then there were these things I was using in the uni workshops last term which i'd never seen before used for accuratly marking out lines for cutting or drilling on materials. It basically consisted of a weighted base with an upright post and a pencil type marker and a rotating lever similar to that would be found on a micrometer for accuratly setting the height of the marker.

These are the types of things I really want to know about, the types of tools that I may not even aware exist or only have limited knowledge of which would allow me to work with much greater accuracy and precision and create pieces with a better finish.

So perhaps with that in mind, some of you will be able to give some helpful suggestions/additions to my tool list

[ViperTX]

Don't forget the mill....infact it would be first over the drill press.

Surface scribe/gage...is the weighted base, column and scribe.

Tapping block...you can make your own from wood, steel or aluminum...they are pretty pricey otherwise...like 40 USD.

Test Indicators are the dial gauges you mention (Fowler, Mituoyo, Starett) 0.0005 inch as a minimum...or 0.127mm...get one with the plunger and the lever kind. You'll also need a magnetic indicator holder and one that you can chuck up in your spindle.

[rustyolddo]

My suggestion is to buy things as you need them. In the case of reamrs for example. If you only nee a 10mmk reamer, buy just that and a quality one instead of buying a whole set. you may find that you use the 10mm and 8mm reamer every day and never use the rest of the set. Alos, when you buy tools without a definate need, they can clutter up and make efficient work flow more difficult. Sorting thru a drawer of drivers, for the one you use all the time is a pain, your better off having it at hand in it's own defined location.

Also, you may buy a tool like a drill press or a hand drill or a measuring guage just to have in the box only to find out when a specifc job comes along that the tool is too small or sized wrong for the application and you have to replace it with another.

[damae]

I can add some measuring tools to your list.

Mitutoyo Digital calipers
Mitutoyo micrometer
Shinwa stainless rules: 1m, 600mm, 300mm, 150mm

If you're going to build a large and precise CNC machine, you will also need:

Starrett master precision level
Precision straight edge, squares, parallels


A word about Harbor Freight: My coworker has a set of 4.5" angle grinders. I say set, because he has 6 of them, all plugged in and hanging from a rack, each with a different grinding, polishing, or cutting wheel on it, With the idea that these tools get beat up a lot, he bought these at harbor freight for $15 each! They withstand all the abuse he gives them, including tossing them onto the gravel floor when he's done using it!

Bosch or Dewalt may be better brand names, but you asked us to keep in mind that you don't have unlimited funds. Be smart with your money. If you use discernment, you can save a lot of money on some tools at Harbor Freight and never see a difference compared to an expensive brand name tool.

Hammers, angle grinders and tools you will only use once or plan to abuse are the best canidates. On the other hand, you will be very disappointed if you buy a welder or digital calipers from Harbor Freight. Those are two categories where you either pay for the real stuff, or you'll pay with your time and sweat.

For instance, the harbor freight calipers show the same number of digits, but the numbers jump in large increments when you move it. If you never used a Mitutoyo caliper, you would never know now much easier to use or how much better the fit and finish is.

The tools you know you will use everyday are especially the tools to splurge on.

[kong]

Try www.buckhickman.co.uk for all your needs. They stock the top names, but expect to pay top-dollar for them.

[wizard]

Now that is a surprise!

I have to wonder if it had anything to do witth their quick expansion into other tools such as socket sets. Seemed to me that some product of recent times where designed and marketed by marketing people. That is people withouth any sense of what it is to work with ones hands.

Dave

Originally Posted by jkeyser14 Just so you know, Allen is no longer in business. We just tried to get some of our tools replaced under warrantee just to find out they are no more.

[wizard]

Originally Posted by UKRobotics My hobby interests are everything really. Over the last 8 years I have been heavily involved in robotic combat, robotwars (battlebots) etc but I consider myself a bit of an inventor and in my spare time have made everything from electric scooters to water pumps.

Lack of focus can kill a start up but so can lack of flexibility. Something to keep in mind.

While I'm still at uni at the moment, I plan to start my own business in the near future specialising in CNC machining providing a service for people who want custom parts for what ever their purpose will be. I have already proved the feasability of this with a small cnc mill that I have at the moment and now I have the larger workshop I can replace that with a bridgeport series 2 or similar machine.

There are two theories as to buying tools, quality or cheap. At this time I can walk over to my tool box and find tools that where new to me when I was in high school as a result of buying quality. Tooling bought due to limited $$$$ or other reasons can't be found today in the box. That doesn't mean that from time to time cheap stuff isn't the best investment for the task though.

In any event if you already have a small CNC mill why not consider getting a real CNC machining center. You are not likely to want ot do this while still in school but I would think that it would be a very high priority right after school.

To that extent, and as per my original question I need to buy quite a wide variety of tools to cover a huge number of potential projects.

No this is exactly what you don't want to do. Cash flow is important with a startup, you need to limit purchases to jobs you can do immediately. It cna be very frustrating to have to decline a job because all your cash is tied up in tools that you don't need immediately.

Certianly a basic selection of tools is needed to get started but you don't want to go hog wild.

I have complied a list of everything I can think of off the top of my head but I'm sure I have missed some essentials that perhaps you might be able to suggest. Hand tools & measurement Big red tool chest

Make that chests or at least have a enough room to keep the cutting tools seperated from the rest of the tools. Sometime after you get your business established a Vidmar type cabinet woould be in order.

Rivet gun Rivnut gun Industrial crimping tool Large glue gun

Why not get a shotgun too?

Seriously though these things should be addressed whn you need them.

Digital Vernier Digital micrometer 1m stainless steel rule 300mm stainless steel rule Engineers square x2 Temp. controlled solder station Selection of hammers & mallet Punch Set incl. centre punch Cobalt drill set Cobalt reamer set Cobalt tap & die set

Cutting tools should be justified based on need. If you don't have a project demanding Cobalt save yourself a few bucks and get a reasonably good HSS steel drill set. Upgrade the set as needed.

Ratchet spanner set Metric & imperial spanner set Metric and imperial socket set Large screwdriver set Precision screwdriver set Allen keys (metric and imperial) Allen keys (ball end) Torx drivers Torx drivers (with hole in middle) Small Electric Tools Makita cordless electric drill Makita corded drill Jigsaw 4" Angle grinder x 2 or 3 (cuttiing, grinding, sanding) 9" Angle Grinder

Starting out I'd get one corded drill and a small angle grinder. It is not like this stuff isn't available when you need to expand your inventory.

Big tools Abrasive Chopsaw Floor standing pillar drill Vertical band saw Horizontal band saw Lathe Non abrasive chopsaw

Seems a bit over kill initially. A Horizontal band saw, lathe and drill press would be a good start.

Depending of course upon how you expect to focus your business this could change. While some might argue other wise a drill press can be a significant time saver in my estimation. Don't skimp on the lathe either.

I know there are things I've missed off this list some of which i dont know the name of, and other things I dont know exist.

I'm surprised you don't have a surface grinder in there or a bench grinder. These along with a belt sander would be very important.

eg. dial gauges ... never heard of them until i came accross cnc zone, here everyone talks about them. still I dont know where to get them from, if there are different types I need and how to tell what is a good quality one and what is a naff one.

I suspect you need more education with respect to the craft.

those things used to de-burr the edges of aluminium parts which is effectivly little more than a specialised odd shaped stanley (exacto?) knife.

A Shavie by chance?

In any event you really need to get a handle on nomenclature. Get a MSC catalog and study that for a bit.

I asked an engineer a while back if there was such a device that could tap perfectly straight holes in large flat pieces of metal, I rememer saying there was somthing that you could put in a drill press which would do just that and it had a special name which I cant remember now. Then there were these things I was using in the uni workshops last term which i'd never seen before used for accuratly marking out lines for cutting or drilling on materials. It basically consisted of a weighted base with an upright post and a pencil type marker and a rotating lever similar to that would be found on a micrometer for accuratly setting the height of the marker.

I have serious problems with the above statement. Either the university you are at is totally worthless or you are a complete slacker. It is extremely important to be able to communicate in the language of your field. Personally I think it is poor form to allow somebody to use a tool they do not know by name.

Not trying to be abrasive here but if you expect to go out into the world and compete with established businesses you need to look like you know what you are doing. Customers will take note.

These are the types of things I really want to know about, the types of tools that I may not even aware exist or only have limited knowledge of which would allow me to work with much greater accuracy and precision and create pieces with a better finish. So perhaps with that in mind, some of you will be able to give some helpful suggestions/additions to my tool list

A tool list is problematic as it becomes a point of focus. A business is not in existance to aquire tools (atleast most aren't) rather it is there to satisfy customer needs. Satisfy the customer and you rake in the dough.

Think about what you need to satisfy the customer and go from there.

Dave

[UKRobotics]

A very insightful post, I shal bear it all in mind. I'm well aware that there is a lot more to an engineering related business than tools alone.

Also, a lot of the tools on that list that you questioned are things I have needed to use for my hobbys and not had available to me at the time and had to go to great difficulty to borrow.

As for a VMC, I'd love one, but they certainly dont come cheap. Also I'll be at uni for quite a while yet and my current cnc has some serious limitations so I need somthing to play with in the mean time.

Thanks for taking the time for such a well thought out reply.

[Rally]

There are cheaper choices as far as Hand Tools are concerned, look at what Fowler has to offer.
I have to admit, somewhere in this tread I got lost! What is it that you are trying to accomplish? Are you starting a hobby or are you trying to go into business? If Business is what you have in mind then forget about the hobby equipment.
Also, as Wizard has mentioned, I would learn about the Machinist trade before asking about Tools and Machines that are needed. A machinist already knows.

Wizard:
There is noting wrong with cheap tools, they even have a place in machine shops. Starrett is overrated. "my opinion"
I also would like to see what is done faster in a manual, like everyone else of course I have not "done it all" nor do I claim to have but I will bet on this. there is not a machine in our shop, and we have lot of them that will do any work faster than what I can do them on my CNC's. You speak of "CODE" all of our CNC's are conversational and will run in manual mode just as they do in automatic.