What would be the best machine for my project?

[drillman]

Hello CNCzone people,

I could really use some help deciding what machine I need to produce prototype cigarette lighter designs from 6061 aluminium solid square bar The bar would be 6"L x 2"W x 2"H or smaller. This is only a small venture, to make a few extra buck because I'm out of work but hopefully I can make something that sells and I'll try to expand.

I'm not looking to make anything too fancy right off, I just need to be able to machine the outside of the bar into shape and do some drill/mill work and then tap and die. I'm looking to be able to do this with a minimal investment for the initial prototype, just so I can get a working model for patent and investment marketing.

Could someone please explain to me what I'd need to work the metal I've chosen? I'm very handy-capable with wood, computers and electronics so if I need to DIY a CNC machine I can, or I can find a deal on a press and go at it the old fashioned way. What would be the best and most cost effective methods?

Please give a newb some guidance. Thank You

[TOTALLYRC]

Based on what you are trying to do, I would say the best machine would be somebody else's machine.
DO the design work yourself and find someone else to do the prototyping for you at a reasonable cost.

If you want to do it yourself, a small manual drill mill or milling machine should get you going.

[robben678]

Originally Posted by drillman Hello CNCzone people, I could really use some help deciding what machine I need to produce prototype cigarette lighter designs from 6061 aluminium solid square bar The bar would be 6"L x 2"W x 2"H or smaller. This is only a small venture, to make a few extra buck because I'm out of work but hopefully I can make something that sells and I'll try to expand. I'm not looking to make anything too fancy right off, I just need to be able to machine the outside of the bar into shape and do some drill/mill work and then tap and die. I'm looking to be able to do this with a minimal investment for the initial prototype, just so I can get a working model for patent and investment marketing. Could someone please explain to me what I'd need to work the metal I've chosen? I'm very handy-capable with wood, computers and electronics so if I need to DIY a CNC machine I can, or I can find a deal on a press and go at it the old fashioned way. What would be the best and most cost effective methods? Please give a newb some guidance. Thank You

I looked up in a dictionary,and "bar" got a few meanings.Could you be so kindly explain it for me.And what a bar can relate to prototype cigarette lighter designs.
Please give a newb some guidance. Thank You

[aucran]

Originally Posted by robben678 I looked up in a dictionary,and "bar" got a few meanings.Could you be so kindly explain it for me.And what a bar can relate to prototype cigarette lighter designs. Please give a newb some guidance. Thank You

By bar, I think he means the metal stock he will be using. (In this case asluminum.)

For example, a 1" x 3" x 12' Bar of AL6061
Bar just means it has flat sides and square corners, so a rectangular or squar shapped peice of metal, as opposed to a Rod/Disc/Tube/Channel.

[Crevice Reamer]

Hi drillman. Welcome to the Zone!

Here is about the lowest-cost ready-to-go machine that will do what you want:

http://deepgroove1.com/cncmill.htm

$1700 plus add a computer, parallel cable, Mach3 and cad/cam software and you would be in business.

Now if you wanted to do this manually, a HF X2 for about $400, and maybe $300 worth of tooling would do.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44991

CR.

[robben678]

THANK YOU

[Crevice Reamer]

Some of this basic CNC info might be helpful to you:

http://crevicereamer.com/Page_2.html

CR.

[drillman]

Thanks totallyrc your right it would be easier and probably cheaper to get someone else to mill it, but then I would worry about my intellectual property and I would have to get a non disclosure agreement, I also think having a machine to work with will be beneficial down the line.


Thanks CR, the deepgrove looks pretty nice, a bit out of my price range for now but I've got it bookmarked. I checked out your website and read some of the info, there is alot of it there I hope to put it to good use soon.

I would like to get the HF X2 you mentioned, I'm planning a very basic design so all I'll really need to do is mainly some drilling with a little face milling (I believe that's what it is called when you shave off part of the bar to create a handle) and a small amount of tap and die work. Would I still need $300 in accessories?

[Crevice Reamer]

Originally Posted by drillman I would like to get the HF X2 you mentioned, I'm planning a very basic design so all I'll really need to do is mainly some drilling with a little face milling (I believe that's what it is called when you shave off part of the bar to create a handle) and a small amount of tap and die work. Would I still need $300 in accessories?

You can start small and add as you go.

Low-cost way to buy an X2, and tooling for the total beginner:
http://crevicereamer.com/Page_6.html

CR.

[Andy990]

Hello! A few thoughts on starting out cheaply. First you need a CAD program..I highly reccomend TurboCad Deluxe. Turbocad has been around since 1985 and has had tons of development time put into it. TurboCad 12,14,15, and 16 all run on Vista and Windows 7 in both 32 and 64 bit OS version. Turbocad uses the same ASCIS engine that autocad does, and accepts every cad format. Does 95-97% of what Autocad does..actually it just does not have command line entry ..which you really dont need anyways.. Cost is $25 or less on amazon.com for deluxe14 with a tutorial..Pro TurboCad is better but costs money..its very similar to autocad...CAD has an immense learning curve..Cadcourse.com has a free 2d drawing tutorial and a really great training bundle for $65..you need the tutorials. No I dont work for turbocad...its just a great program for the money..Google had turbocad write sketchup for them buy the way..(dont use sketchup..get turbocad instead)
As far a linear motion..stay away from ballscrews..they are great but simply cost way way too much..Go with 1/2 inch 10 thread per inch right hand turn ,single start ACME threaded rod. Mcmaster.com sells it for $7 for a 3 foot long piece and $12 for a six foot long piece..shipping is about 5-6 bucks..cant go wong..I would not use regular threaded rod from a hardware store or better grad ACME right now as you just want to get going and its going to be accurate to .0010 to .001 inch . Two start ACME and precision ACME cost a lot more..General acme will get the job done.
As far a stepper motors go..you dont want to go too big or too small..the smallest I would go is 166 oz/in...127 oz/in wold be sort of ok..the largest..260 oz in..If you get too big of a stepper (..500 oz ect..) then you have a 15 amp fusebreaker in your shop then you will have wiring hazards and possible fuse tripping You can ge 166 oz/in 24 volt 3 amp bipolar Minebea/Astrosyn Hybrid bipolar motor for $12 ea at mpja.com..these are really great motors..remember..the ACME screw holds the gantry in position..the motor just moves it there..(there is also what is called detent torque from the motor..but you dont need a whole lot.)Go bipolar..they are stronger..the old motors are round..new motors are square....you also should have a dedicated computer there to run the CAM software that takes the CAD model and converts it to machine code or "G Code". Any old garage sale computer would work..Load Ubuntu on it .(free Linux) So you also need a second pice of software CAM.CAM takes the CAD model and translates it into "G code " for the cnc machine to read....LinuxCNC.org has ECM for free..its pretty good..in fact Shaerline uses it on their small mills. And its fully documented..Again there is better suff out there but this program would work just fine! As far as controllers for the steppers go..look around..you absolutly must have documentation and operating software for the controller..dont buy a controller without directions! Stay away from expensive controllers for now..ie.. Lizard brand..they are truly great but simply cost too much !
You will need a general electronics book..the best on the market is wirttern by Floyd..Electronics-Electron Flow..$10 for a used copy from amazon..any edition from 1997 onward is just fine..Well illustrated expensive book new though..You also will need a book on stepper motors and one on industrial electonics..again ..used..amazon.com..1997 or later..new costs too much.
Power supply..24 volt 12 amp from Marlin Jones $25..mpja.com..they also sell the Minebea 166 oz/in 3 amp 24 volt motors for $12 ea...not the biggest..but they will get the job done..especially for you since you dont have a giant x-y table to worry about and by the way..the reason people here talk about rapid movement is that moving too slow burns wood and many people here are in a production enviroment..the 166 and single start acme will work just fine in your situation...also some people here are using $250,000 machines! or more$ ! .... Or are on a fast production line..so what applies to them does not apply to you!
As far as a spindle goes either use a porter-cable router or much much better get a real spingle intended for aluminum/ and or precison work..about $95 if you look..read the tolerances..
The ACME general from Mcmaster is Keystone brand and its very high quality for general acme threaded rod...Yes two start might be better..but it costs a lot more..plus its only available in precision grade..ie.. .00001 tolerance..if you can afford the precison two start ACME go for....but get 1/2 inch!.. (smaller diameter flexes or "whips" at high rpm..)
You can build a machine cheaply that will get you .0010 to .001 ....any more precison costs a lot more.. As does the size of the machine..bigger machines cost more..just build it yourself..have a local machine shop cut and drill for you then assembl;e it yourself..Slotslva has a $25 set of plans or design it yourself..Browse the web for cnc builds..PMinMO.com is a great great resource!!..To get .001 you would need the real for cnc router $95 spindle..and have it mounted correctly..Porter cable is good..but your have to buy the entire roiuter to get the spindle..Avoid general hardware stuff in critical places..use it elesewhere for bolting things together..Make sure you get the wiring right ..otherwise it creates a fire hazard!! Also I would enclose it .(use plexiglas on one side so you can see whats going on.three or more different materials snadwiched toigether yeild the best sound insulation.(good safety too..from flying broken bits..shards ect..).put a usb webcam camera in with the machine so you can watch it and listen remotely..and rig up a spray cooling set up for coolant/lubricant..along with a fan to help cool.
Thats my take on building a cheap cnc
Good luck and stay in budget! andy

[aucran]

Impressive post Andy990, Thank you for the information!