Which VMC

[Cfin]

Wow, there is a wealth of information on this site and have spent several nights reading/searching for information relating to various things.... always seem to find the answers.

This one is alittle more "difficult" though and I don't want to open a squabble...as I know people always have there preferences....

I am in the market for a used VMC to export to New Zealand, I am new to cnc machines and only had experience with manual mills. Most of what I intend to do is relatively simple..... mainly automotive related....probing existing parts, finding bore centers, re-boring cylinders, refacing etc, as well as any general machining work.
I know the size/type of machine I require (VF-3/4020HT/6030 , side mount, 4th axis, probe), but I don't know machine reliability, tolerance "holding" traits and maintenance factors relating to the various machines.....plus as always, there is a budget to keep in mind.
I also leave many hours away from any cnc service people.... which is probably the greatest factor.... I have already read here quite a number of "horror stories" on a number of machines.

Can I ask peoples opinion on which of the "common", local machines (i.e Fadal, Haas, Milltronics etc) which would be the most reliable and "hard" wearing machine? Which would be the easiest to set-up and use? What to look for in a used machine to avoid a "lemon"? Is a ball bar test adequate to show machine wear.

Any help and comments appreciated.

Chris

[AccurateCalibra]

I would buy a used Makino before buying new, any of those you mentioned. It sounds like your doing automotive engines and if that's the case your going to need a machine that maintains a good table plane. FYI Fads don't do that.

[Cfin]

Thanks for the reply.
I have been "warned off" as supplied rotary tables... and ended up buying a virtually new Nikken on advice from others.

Is that what you are referring to and/or could you elaborate on the table plane issue?

[AccurateCalibra]

Originally Posted by Cfin Thanks for the reply. I have been "warned off" as supplied rotary tables... and ended up buying a virtually new Nikken on advice from others. Is that what you are referring to and/or could you elaborate on the table plane issue?

Sent you a PM

[Caprirs]

I think given your location, the ability to service the machine will be worth more than neato features. If the machine is inoperable, it doesn't matter what tricks it will do if repairs are weeks away. The machine best suited to your needs might not be the highest performing machine you can buy, especially if you're not doing high volume production. If you were located in a large metropolitan area in the USA, there are lots of choices. If you're not so close to reliable service and support for certain brands, you might consider sticking with one that is reliable and close.

[underthetire]

As stated before, find a local service/sales company in your area. I prefer the Mori's myself, even if you need to buy used. Check this site and use the drop downs to see if they have service in your area, or call the nearest tech center. They don't always list the service offices in every area. Stay with the larger brands if you can, worst thing ever is when you call for a part for a ten year old machine to find out the company has gone under or is no longer supporting "that old" of a product. In my past I would say Mori has been the best at parts for old machines, followed by Okuma and Makino. The Taiwan/chinese stuff has been the worst.

http://www.moriseiki.com/english/index.html

[Cfin]

Well, you both have probably "hit the nail on the head" and was aware of the problem before the original post..... there is basically no service available here for ANY machine.
Moriseki's closest service center is in... Australia !! I doubt whether the others are much different.... as New Zealand has only a small population and it wouldn't be worth their while to set something up here.

So I am pretty much on my own and repairs/maintainence will have to be done by me.
Getting parts in is not an issue but perhaps the know-how and any specialist fixtures required to repair the thing... might be.... which is why I asked if any of the "local" machines is known to be more reliable.

Why do I feel the need for a "common" US machine? I think parts and spares will be easier to source and perhaps the "knowledge" side of issue is alittle easier to find.

[Caprirs]

It is not as dire as might first appear. Many factories provide phone support even if you are not the original owner of the machine. Although they will not hold your hand every day, they will be very helpful troubleshooting and diagnosing machine problems over the phone. This is partly in hopes you buy more of their machines and partly because they can sell you replacement parts.

If you cannot get reliable local service regardless of brand, then you are free to choose a machine with the features you think will best suit your application. Any issues will be solved by you and any parts will come by boat so there may not be a preference in one make's reliability over another brand.

[Cfin]

Now thats the sort of comments I was after... I am not fazed by the lack of service support here. We tend to be a country of DIY'ers just for that reason.

So I guess my question should have been - are there any known reliability "flaws" that one local brand has ?

[Caprirs]

I think you can find some neat machines that are less commonly known, but that still have decent features and quality. Since you do not plan on high volume production, I doubt you'll kill spindles. Massive material removal rates are not so important, so high horsepower and rigidity are not so crucial. The world's fastest tool change is not important either. Fun but not gonna make you more money.

If you're looking at a used machine, knowing its history is likely to be more relevant than the brand. For instance, a lovingly cared for Haas may be a better deal than a beat-to-snot Mazak. Haas and Fadal also have their "re-manufactured" machines at a discounted price and with a warranty.

Will the machine definitely come by boat? Is there anything already in NZ?

[skullworks]

When someome offers the open question What VMC without specifics I would also say Mori Seiki.

As to service and support - if its a Mori and you don't do any catastrophic crashes you will never need them other than to order the FANUC batteries each year. They just keep running.

[Kool Parts]

Cfin,
First off Welcome
I have done a lot of research one New Zealand in the last year. In my digging around I have found a few companys that I am sure you are already aware of.
Total CNC
is a dealer for Kitamura which has a great reputation. They have a office in Christchurch and Auckland.

Then you have Global They carry Matsurra and Nakamura which are unbeatable in Any country. They also have the worst web site on the internet with 0.0 clickable links

CNC Machine Tools carries the Hardinge / Bridgport line and they have really come a long way as very nice VMC's

I could have sworn that Makino had a office in NZ but I can seem to find it. They may service out of Aus.

What I remember is most things tool and cnc were out of Auckland.
The area we are looking at is in the West Coast region. A little scary to be that far away from...anything
What area do you call home?
Gary