Lathe info

[donr]

Hi
I am looking for a lathe. I have no machining experience whatsoever but, am willing to learn. In my quest for a lathe, I came across an Woodhouse and Mitchell lathe at a reasonable price. After talking with the owner, who knows nothing about it or machining for that matter, he tells me it has no headstock. Apparently, parts are held in place by 2 large air cylinders. The bed is 7 feet long and the lathe weight in at around 1000 pounds min.. I would like a bit of info before going to see this thing as it is a good drive from my place. Anyone hear of these lathes as I could find very little info about this company. Thanks
Don

[LUCKY13]

I would take a camera and gets pics of the lathe to post so other can give advice about what they see.


No HeadStock sounds liek this might be a specialty lathe that is made to do only one type of operation. In other words its not going to be much for a Home SHop setup. YOU just cant go adding a head stock to a lathe, its a pretty hard operation to do so anyway.



IMHO just starting out its much better to buy something new & small ( unless your finding very cheap deals). Remember it takes more money for tooling & measuing equipment than it does the machine. The bigger the machine the more the other things needed will cost.

It also will take much more stuff to get to a point of being productive with a machine than one would think. Also if CNC if wanted latter then a lot can be saved by going with the right machine now.


Two things to really think about.

How much do you want to spend ?
And what do you wish to make ?


A lathe is a great first machine but there is a lot more to all this than expected. The machine is the cheapest part of getting started.


Jess

[handlewanker]

Don, No experience whatsoever? Never worked a lathe before? Wow, you'd better get a friend who at least knows or has seen what a lathe looks like to advise you. (blind leading the blind)

My advice from 50 years as a fitter/turner is to get at least someone who knows lathes before you even get close to the metal, because there are some people out there that will just palm off anything that looks remotely like a bit of machinery without a money back guarantee if'n it don't work.

The other main thing is what kind of work do you intend to do, money doesn't come into it at this stage.

If it involves even a small bit of mass production, say 20 or 30 items, then even the very best centre lathe, at an absolute bargain basement give away price, will put you into deep water when it comes to making the parts.

Centre lathes are hopless for repetition work, apart from the type of tooling you'll need.

Then there's the capacity aspect, how big, as in how long and what diam are you intending to turn.

Give us an idea of at least some of the work you'll be doing, then (for a very modest fee) only kidding, we'll be able to dredge the depths of our vast knowledge data base and advise you.
Ian.

[donr]

Well, I took Jess's advice and stayed away from the mentioned lathe since the owner could not answer a single question that I asked. Secondly, I think it was too big.
As for the work I intend to do, it would be mostly small parts to fix tools, make custom controls for motorcycle etc. No mass production in sight. But I do want something bigger than a mini lathe, somewhere in the 9 x 30 size. I could apprentice on something like this and it would be sturdy enough to do bigger jobs if the need arises.
Don

[handlewanker]

Hi, That's forward thinking.

For general purpose making bits and pieces a 9X30 would fit the bill, provided it wasn't an old 1930 type, LOL, that you'd have to really know your onions to make it perform.

By that I mean, you would have to know machinery to keep it on line, otherwise they tend to go out of wack.

The same could be said for a brand new Chinese/Taiwanese etc import, but on the whole buying one of those modern types is preferable, unless you "know your onions" and can wring the last drop of mechanical ability with old iron.

There are of course some really crap examples of what some makers call centre lathes, usually in the parts that make up the speed control and screw cutting arrangements.

Everything is made down to a price, and if something is advertised as the "latest" innovative piece of advanced technology, it's the salesmans's way of saying that's the cheapest way to make profit, trust me.

For a "newbie" without experienced guidance, the prospect is daunting, and a salesman will sell you anything for money.

A couple of pointers in buying a lathe, a big spindle bore, at least 30mm, also a quick change screw cutting gearbox, and 3 and 4 jaw chucks, bolted on not screwed onto the spindle, otherwise you can't have reverse.

A fixed steady is essential, and I would advise getting as part of the deal a QCTP, or quick change tool post, with at least 6 or 8 tool holders, that makes life really enjoyable.

I expect a price of around $2000 wouldn't give you any change, and there is also the extra tools to make the thing work, micrometer, vernier, dial indicator and mag base, revolving or live centre, tailstock drill chuck, (keyless), cutting oil (water based), some carbide tooling, also some HSS tooling, enough drills and a few reamers etc etc, the list can go on.

And don't forget to get a 6" double ended bench grinder, with coarse and fine wheels.

The lathe by itself will soon generate a response to buy the other bits and pieces as you go along.
Ian.

[donr]

Thank's Ian
Those are really good pointers and I will be sure to investigate them. As for knowing my onions, I don't. I asked a neighboor who is a machine mechanic to come with me for his opinion on one lathe I was looking at. Good thing because he pointed out all the things that were wrong with it and it would have been a big pile of iron in my garage. Another one wants $1200.00 for and old 1937/39 Atlas 6" lathe that runs on babbit bearings. I was considering the Chinese/Taiwan lathes at one point since price for new is interesting. But I will go that route only if I can't find decent American iron in my price range. In the meantime, I will keep shopping. On a side note, I did find a pristine Atlas H54 at a cheap price(few hundred), but it was missing the auto feed and I guess it would only be good for manual turning.(Not even the lead screw)
Don

[handlewanker]

One of the big problems with an oldish lathe (15-20yrs) is the 3 jaw chuck, where most of your turning is done, would be due for replacement, and that would add another $150 for about a 6" diam Chinese type, but that by itself is one of the most overlooked items on a lathe.

I would venture to say at this stage that a 3 jaw chuck is either good or bad, there is no in between, that is it either runs true on all diams or it don't.

I bought a Chinese 6" chuck for my old Colchester, and can say that after 20 years of use (no kidding folks), it still holds work within a thou on all diams. How? Well I don't overtighten it, and make sure it keeps clean.

A 3 jaw can be considered a poor mans collet set, and if treated right will always run true.

Pity about that Atlas, I don't know the model, got any details?

Even without a leadscrew it might have been a good buy, as most of your turning is done with the feed shaft, (if it had one), and if it uses the leadscrew to do the feeding, I'd avoid it.

Some leadscrews have a keyway cut along them so that the feed mechanism can be driven without wearing the flanks of the leadscrew thread, but I've found that this is the best way to get swarf and dirt into the apron gears, not to be recomended, yet the smaller Chinese lathes use this method as a cost cutting exercise.

If you have to buy new, spend all your budget on the lathe, once you've got that you'll get the rest as "birthday presents" etc, LOL.

Oh, and don't be tempted to go SMALL, VERY IMPORTANT, small always means small capacity all round.

You can do a small job on a big lathe but you can't do a big job on a small lathe, also the bigger models are a bit more "bullet proof".
Ian.

[donr]

Geez, there is more to it than I thought. The only details I have are the ones posted on this site: http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/
Again many thanks for valuable info.
Don