Newbie- Tools for the trade

[Cooperd0g]

I have been lurking and trying to learn for a while. I have recently had a product designed and prototyped for me. I'm trying to sell the idea to a large company, but if that doesn't work out I have been thinking about buying the machinery to build it myself. My two materials are 6061-T6 aluminum and polycarbonate.

The aluminum needs to be made from rods - tapered on part of the outside, bored out with two different radii, and threaded. Another piece of aluminum needs to be milled out, threaded, rounded on one end, and then have a hold drilled through it. Overall length is about 6 inches.

The poly needs to be tapered, bored out with two different radii, and then have a few channels and flat spots milled into it for electrical connections to run along it. Overall length is about 5.5 inches.

I'm pretty sure I need a lathe and a mill. The Sherline mini CNC lathe won't do threads. Tiag doesn't have a CNC lathe. I think that going CNC would be improve quality control and make productivity higher even having to change tools myself. The Tormach PCNC looks like it could do everything I need.

I have been looking into having the aluminum contracted out and the plastic injection molded, but the mold costs for the plastic will run about $10,000 to $15,000 because it is a complicated piece. I could buy a Tormach PCNC with the lathe for that much probably and just make all the pieces myself.

I imagine I could use non-CNC based machinery that wouldn't cost as much as the Tormach, but then it would take quite a bit longer to make each piece. I'm not really too interested in building my own CNC up.

That is my situation. What do you think would be the best tools to make these parts?

[youngjim]

15k for the molds? A good quality lathe (like a 10x22 CNC conversion from D3CNC, which will cut threads) and a good mill should fit well into that figure, and leave a fair bit of room for shipping and tooling. Expect a meaningful learning curve, but you would be better off with the tools to do it because you could alter the part if you find reason to.

My 0.02.

Jim

[307startup]

Do a price-up on Tormach's website. They have a shopping cart. The $15,000 figure you mentioned will buy you just about every gizmo they have. Of course then you'll need another $2000 in tooling to be up & running, but of course you may not NEED every accessory they sell.

[youngjim]

Keep in mind the bill for software, too; if you're doing this as a business find the right tools in that area, too. (I don't mean the most ________, just what works for you, your parts, and your budget.)

Keep us posted?

Jim

[tobyaxis]

Don't forget about Inspection Equipment.
Calipers
Micrometers
Height Gauges
Inspection Plate
Pin Gauges
Thread Gauges
Drop Dial
Indicators

Just to name a few basics

[307startup]

I just did a price-up for you with all the accessories you would need for the job you mentioned and minus endmills, drills, etc...total is $14,463.71 without tax or shipping. Definitely sounds like a no-brainer to me.

This price-up included the mill, the deluxe stand w/coolant tank & pump, the Duality Lathe, the lathe tooling & holders, the mill tooling holders - TTS, milling vise, extra vise jaws - stepped & soft jaws, computer with LCD screen, mini USB keyboard, CAD/CAM software and miscellaneous cords & cables.

[tobyaxis]

Originally Posted by 307startup I just did a price-up for you with all the accessories you would need for the job you mentioned and minus endmills, drills, etc...total is $14,463.71 without tax or shipping. Definitely sounds like a no-brainer to me. This price-up included the mill, the deluxe stand w/coolant tank & pump, the Duality Lathe, the lathe tooling & holders, the mill tooling holders - TTS, milling vise, extra vise jaws - stepped & soft jaws, computer with LCD screen, mini USB keyboard, CAD/CAM software and miscellaneous cords & cables.

I wonder where people get the idea that manufacturing is Cheap.
Learning the trade is extensive enough.

[Cooperd0g]

307 thanks for running those numbers. My biggest issue is that I don't know what I don't know - specifically what tools would be necessary. But hey, at least I know that, right? Looking at their website I knew that $15,000 would cover the mill, lathe, and big stand with some left to buy at least some of the tooling I would need.

youngjim, I am checking out the D3CNC lathe and it looks pretty good. I would still need a mill as well. The Sherline and Taig ones look about $2,500 to $3,000. With the cost of the D3CNC and tooling, it should be a few thousand less than the Tormach, but the Tormach is a fully integrated system.

I did forget to mention that the aluminum finished piece is about .5 inch in diameter and the polycarbonate is machined from 3/8 inch stock. Quotes from town are about $22 per piece for the aluminum (with anodizing) in lots of 100. Quotes for machining the plastic from out in town are $84 per piece so the plastic won't be happening - there would go my entire profit!

One of the Tormach consultants will take your files, tell you exactly what tooling you need, build the system, and even program the G-code in the Mach 3 for you. That really does save a lot of time and learning curve. I would still need/want to learn how to get a CAD file into Mach 3 on my own, but at least I could be up and running and learning that on the side. I'm requesting a quote for my parts so we'll see how much of a convenience mark up there is.

I also have a meeting with a pretty well known high end company to discuss my product. I think the will be interested, but if they aren't willing to pay enough for it I want to know my best options for going it along whether I a make the parts or farm out the aluminum and have a mold made and farm out the plastic.

Right now I'm in a wait and see mode. Waiting on the Tormach quote from the consultant dude and waiting for my meeting with the big company. Thanks for the help. If anyone else has other options for equipment that would work for me, please chime in. I like to know the options.

[Cooperd0g]

Sorry, one more question: These types of machines can do the aluminum I know, but can they work 3/8" poly rod stock like I have described? Again, I don't know what I don't know, but I worry that the plastic would snap or break in the lathe process because 5" would be sticking out of the spindle. I just don't know how stable that would be spinning around like that. Most of the product videos show metal being cut.

[g-codeguy]

Originally Posted by Cooperd0g Sorry, one more question: These types of machines can do the aluminum I know, but can they work 3/8" poly rod stock like I have described? Again, I don't know what I don't know, but I worry that the plastic would snap or break in the lathe process because 5" would be sticking out of the spindle. I just don't know how stable that would be spinning around like that. Most of the product videos show metal being cut.

Five inches of 3/8 plastic sticking out of the collet/chuck is going to be nigh impossible to machine. Even steel sticking out that far would require a tailstock. Chatter would be a nightmare without one unless you can use a steady rest. (Have zero experience with a steady rest.)

Plastic sticking out that far is really going to flex away from the cutting tool. I personally don't like machining plastics.

Keep us updated. I would like to know how you make out with this new product. Especially if you go the route of making it yourself. Good luck.