Need Help!- 3-in-1 CNC, et cetera . . .

[mini2060]

Hi,

Probably going to get beat up on this one . . .

That said, I'm a hobbyist. In the past worked with larger, lathe, mill, and, drill machines, on wood.

Now am in a hobby which requires some small scale metal working. Hence, the desire for a metal 3 in 1, drill, mill and lathe machine.

I would really like to get a CNC machine. However, haven't been to Voc Tech to learn the programming required.

Now this will help me, or get me flamed, one, or the other . . .

Are there CNC machines that make use of Windows, allowing the user to input needs/requirements in more or less lay language? Where the [which ever] windows software interprets the "lay" language requirements typed in, and in turn, converts it into CNC machine code?

Or, are there 3-in-1 CNC machines that provide for non-technical machine coded language, in order to machine the design inputted?

Be nice ... left myself wide open on this post ... so be nice if in fact the above is not a possibility.

If so, please let me know.

Thanking you in advance . . .

[tobyaxis]

Are you asking is a CNC can be "Voice Controlled" or in a Conversational Programming Format instead of G-Code?

Welcome to CNC Zone

[mini2060]

Not conversational. More inline with windows based 3-D drawings, x, y, and z, dimensions, and so forth, being entered by the user.

Then being "interpreted" by the windows software to encode input into G-Code Format for CNC use.

[The Blight]

G-Codes are pretty simple by themselves.

Are you thinking about cam software? Making g-code from 3D parts? These programs can be quite expensive, and a lot of them take time to learn. Easier to learn the G-Code

[sharpshooter90]

Originally Posted by mini2060 Are there CNC machines that make use of Windows, allowing the user to input needs/requirements in more or less lay language? Where the [which ever] windows software interprets the "lay" language requirements typed in, and in turn, converts it into CNC machine code? Or, are there 3-in-1 CNC machines that provide for non-technical machine coded language, in order to machine the design inputted?

My nerd level may not be high enough to answer this, but I think " conversational" programming is obsolete. It was used in the early days of NC work, but G code is the universal language of today. You are probably better off to go with the flow and learn G codes.

[thackman]

The short answer is "Yes". There are countless software packages available to automate the various of software exists to automate the various steps required to produce a product. What you weren't clear on was what part of the process your requirements are from and how much money you had to spend. I'm going make a guess as to what I think you are asking so: If you have a simple part and 100% of the design engineering is done and you know the coordinates and dimensions of all the features that you want to cut then a "Conversational" product might be cost effective and get you going the quickest. BobCad and Mach3 have screens were you can pick an operation such as drill, pocket, or slot and enter the coordinates and dimensions and it will generate the required g-code.

You terms "needs/requirements" was so broad that it could include anything. Mechanical requirements, material requirement, surface finish, cosmetic requirements. I'm assuming it was along the lines of "drill a 0.25" dia hole 0.5" deep at x,y,z and chamfer .010". I could be misinterpreting your question however because a users needs/requirements could also include:
The part must weight less that xxx lbs.
The part will operate in a corrosive environment at temperatures up to xxx.
The part must be ported to accept xyz fitting.
The part must be able to withstand a force of F at point xyz and with a amximum deflection of D
A finish of xRMS is required on face F.
Tolerances.

Can you provide a more detailed example of what you are trying to do? I usually use a CAD program to design a part, a CAM program to generate the tool paths, then a CNC controller program run the mill to cut the part. All 100% windows based and 0% g-code. You also have to consider that your least expensive options that barely function usually cost several hundred dollars, OK software can cost $1,000 and up and the good stuff that the pro's use can be $10k to $100k.

Mach3 is only $175 and might do everything you need. If you end up needing a CAD interface the you might have to pick up BobCad or SheetCAM and you are still under $500.

[tobyaxis]

Originally Posted by sharpshooter90 My nerd level may not be high enough to answer this, but I think " conversational" programming is obsolete. It was used in the early days of NC work, but G code is the universal language of today. You are probably better off to go with the flow and learn G codes.

Conversational is not Obsolete. Many Commercial parts are made with these today. Mazatrol is one of many and they will even do Full 5 Axis. Hurco and Okuma also have Conversational options.

The number one problem with Conversational vs G-Code is program swapping with different controls made in different years. With G-Code this isn't too much of an issue.

I dislike Conversational but prefer G-Code because you do not need to have the machine in front of you to program it. G-Code gives the best overall control of machine movements and can be programmed by hand with simple MS notepad.

[mini2060]

The Blight, when someone mentions CAD/CAM, I think of programs, that routes best possible "pipe" routing in design, and subsequent application in the manufacturing of nuclear submarines, for example. I'm uninformed enough to make "mistakes" regarding questions asked. Most CAD/CAM may be beyond my more simple needs.

For example, my hobby requires metal wheels, amongst other aluminum metal based needs/products. Sometimes market born wheels, and other manufactured products do not fit my needs for a certain creation being made.

A simplified example, I want the programmable mill/drill/lathe 3-in-1 machine able to make a simple aluminum wheel. Say, one inch in diameter, one half inch in width. Then being able to machine out the inside of the wheel to say 1/32 inch rim portion. With a inner middle layer left to be able to drill a 1/8 hole through it. There's a little more to it than just described. But, for now, for brevity, I'll leave it at that. Lateral cuts for spokes and the like would be necessary too, etc., etc. The aluminum of course, would have to be of such value to withstand some forces, once being holed out to thinness of perhaps 1/64 on an inch. And still possess ability to handle some stress when used.

The above is a very simple example, the making of an object that is almost all circular in most of its aspects.

sharpshooter, "nerd ness" or otherwise. Why do you believe G-Code to be easier than interpretive software? My meaning here, is software that is more user friendly, than say machine language. The programming for this site is light years beyond my capabilities. Yet, permits me to issue forth a post, replete with words, and even photos, if desired.

thackman, I will know in advance what outcome I will need/want, dimensionally, as in height, width, and depth. As well other aspects, which as said above won't get into, since adds too much length to the post.

Another way to say the above, is taking an aluminum cube, and telling the machine what to remove, so that the results are the same as initial desired outcome "drawn" in windows by the software. Once necessary information is supplied by the user.

CAD, CAM CNC controller ... software. You mention OK software, et cetera. My guess is, you as a group, are far, far more engineering oriented than I. Your needs are likely much more complicated than mine are.

Your paragraph "you terms 'need/requirements' was so . . ." Is close, I will not need to worry with corrosive environments, or extremes of cold, or heat. Nor will forces be of much worry. In that the aluminum in and of itself, will outweigh stresses "asked" of it by the final product.

That said, the wheel example above, must be every exact dimensionally, since rotational speeds may reach 6,000 RPM's. At such speeds, a wheel, even a small one, if out of balance, will create huge stresses. Because of the magnification of the out of balance nature as rotational speeds increase. Much like the coarseness, or lack thereof, that occurs in balanced versus un-balanced 4-cylinder auto engines.

Will need to check out Mach3, BobCad, SheetCAM . . . Very unlikely that I will need hyper-expensive software's. There will be repetition, making of more than one piece. Only in a few instances will one piece need to mate with another, or follow its contour . . . I'm not a programmer, which is abundantly obvious. Another way of saying the above is that the pieces created need not meld with one another in great, or little multiples. Where the next piece is dependent on the result of the previous or following pieces to be made.

tobyaxis, your post was akin to chemist having a discussion amongst themselves, with a non-chemist listening in. Jargon unknown to the "outsider." My guess is, my needs are of the freshman variety, whilst the rest of you are seniors getting ready to go onto grad school. I understood the need for conformity. I sense that G-Code, is like say, Fortran of old, no, bad analogy. My sense is, that G-Code is universally accepted, and understood by those in the game, as it were.

A common thread, machine to machine, engineer to engineer, so-to-speak. While other software, if lacking potential for universal acceptance, will wither and die. Because it is not kept up to date, with changes reflected in the natural growth and progression of an industry it was made to conform to initially.

Won't do this each time, using your user names that is. Did so this time in order to follow up on each post. Which were all helpful . . .

[jmkasunich]

There is no software that will make you a machinist - that requires knowledge and experience. The knowledge often comes from the experience of making mistakes.

Let's look at your example, one line at a time, and think about how to make it:

A simplified example, I want the programmable mill/drill/lathe 3-in-1 machine able to make a simple aluminum wheel. Say, one inch in diameter, one half inch in width.

OK, round - that means lathe. Start with a bar slightly bigger than 1", turn the OD to 1" diameter, part off a 1/2" thick slice.

Then being able to machine out the inside of the wheel to say 1/32 inch rim portion.

Hollowing out one side is easy - use a boring bar before you part it off.

To do the other side, you'll have to turn the part around and put it back in the chuck. Now you are talking about two operations instead of one.

With a inner middle layer left to be able to drill a 1/8 hole through it.

A hub in other words? Still doable with a boring bar, but the bar needs to be small enough to fit between hub and rim. You'll also have a hard time finishing the OD of the hub with ordinary turning tools - they'll probaby hit the rim. You could make up a special tool, or use a left handed boring bar, or reverse the spindle and use the regular boring bar behind the centerline, or...

For the axle hole - how precise does it need to be, both in diameter and centering? Might be as simple as drill, or as complex as drill, bore, and ream.

Lateral cuts for spokes and the like would be necessary too, etc., etc.

As soon as you start talking about spokes, it is no longer strictly a lathe part. If you need accurate roundness and concentricity, it probably makes sense to turn the OD and make the axle hole on the lathe in one chucking- turn, face, drill (maybe bore and ream), then part off. Then do the hollowing on the mill, one side at a time.

If you have a tight machine with no backlash, you could in theory do the OD on the mill as well, and avoid the lathe completely. But a 3-in-1 with backlash, etc, will give you flat spots or bumps when milling a circle.

The aluminum of course, would have to be of such value to withstand some forces, once being holed out to thinness of perhaps 1/64 on an inch. And still possess ability to handle some stress when used.

Well, the aluminum is what it is (some alloys are stronger than others, but there are definite limits). You need to design the part to be thick enough to withstand the loads that will be applied to it. Maybe 1/64" will work, maybe not. You can either do the math (non-trivial for a complex part), or you can make prototypes and test them.

The above is a very simple example, the making of an object that is almost all circular in most of its aspects.

"Simple" as it may seem, there is no software anywhere that will do the thinking for you. You need to understand the strength requirements, you need to define the dimensions of the part, and you need to think about the machining operations that will be needed to make the part.

your post was akin to chemist having a discussion amongst themselves, with a non-chemist listening in.

That analogy is valid. The problem is that you want to do chemistry! If you don't know any chemistry, no software is going to be able to make you a chemist.

Good luck,

John

[The Blight]

When I say CAM I mean the sort that makes G-Codes out of 3D parts. Not that I know of any other type. Hehe.

Some of these programs are easy to use, because they have a lot of visual features.

For your need, you should learn to use G-Codes if you want to use CNC machines. Working with metals should be the first thing to learn. Thumbs up John! Good post.

[tobyaxis]

Originally Posted by jmkasunich That analogy is valid. The problem is that you want to do chemistry! If you don't know any chemistry, no software is going to be able to make you a chemist. Good luck, John

Nice explanation John!! These fingers just don't like to type so much these days, LOL.

I think he will understand what you wrote.

BTW: The Blight, CAM defined is Computer Aid in Manufacturing, not necessarily G-Code. Robotics in manufacturing have many different languages. For instance CMM's and Circuit Board Printers.

Cheers